maybrit illner – 16.01.2020 – Iran und die Bombe: War Europa zu naiv (ZDF)

[Applause] [Applause] we are our guests and here is our theme will never iran nuclear weapon have said at least he has achieved so far donald trump However, only one of the countdown to Iranian bomb is running again with the agreement of 2015, there was after all, managed to stop the clock to eleven fifty-five now feel the mullahs no longer on the nuclear-deal bound donald trump is owing or has never iran was stopped dreaming of the bomb Europe too naive, we have to talk to these guests florence Gaub from European institute for security studies says Iran regime is engaged with the back to the wall Shazad Osterath Iran journalist asks the agreements atom must be saved Arye Sharuz Shalicar for Israeli policemen is certain iran has agreements with the atom always lied and cheated constanze stilts miller the usa expert is certainly the danger of escalation is turned only briefly and Heiko Maas of the federal foreign minister says our interest is that iran Never nukes they are developed to guest at Maybrit Illner [Applause] [Applause] but that is what donald trump achieved we ask the mullahs do not feel since last week more to the nuclear agreement bound the deal with nuclear Iran is so good how dead the clock is ticking again iran wants atombombe just like the declared archenemy Israel which they already have to the killing Sulimani it announced tehran also the last limit of the atom to ignore Agreement the number of centrifuges to to increase uranium enrichment highly explosive not only for the region because Germany has always one swore done not need world iran prove that the iran atombombe builds Iran has the world over must convince the world that he atomic bomb does not want or iran not to come holding a nuclear bomb the payday advances now more europa league seven have moved their biography parents came as Iranian Jews Germany later they are to israel gone and even a were the speaker of the Israeli army from today considered what they believe how long would Iran need a nuclear So warhead produce we live in a reality where you actually do nothing can really appreciate more which itself is the brightest heads can not really say exactly deadlines give it is now recently came in israel from the security services came a analysis out who said if it so continues and Iranians really now hardcore start producing end 2020 could see pessimistic they were already armed atomically optimistic 20 22 which means we are now in a period where you really nice gas must give to we have similar goals here namely that is not atomic iran what would it mean for Israel if the iran the atomic bomb would therefore ask the is not only meaning for israel but I quote briefly Secretary General of the Arab league fracture rate has just recently told you must not be surprised if the Iranians and perhaps the Turks nuclear one day are armed all go along arabian ie here it comes really ever had a foot race one atomic not only foot race between israel and iran but the whole region looks so are many of the the shoe ingredients grandstand sit and which is highly falsified that we have to necessarily right now in Those staying iran Heiko Maas as federal foreign minister what would an Iranian bomb for Europe meaning they would think the security situation not only in the near and Middle East put on the head but she would the security situation to Europe change quite dramatically and therefore we must in all this what it all want that iran no nukes has if this agreement is not given would then have to be feared that

iran already holding a nuclear weapon would be and therefore we keep it fixed we need this agreement we do not agree that which sets Iran’s obligations under that is why we also have this so-called dispute arbitration mechanism which would mean it when they would have for Europe in terms of refugee crises in relation to oil crises with regard to paints one of the actually you do not want it imagine but we must ensure that not even going as far cometh surely that would have impact the security situation, the geo-strategic situation in the Near and would change completely the middle east and therefore it must remain that who and Iran no nukes, we but must also as a european together Find the United States routes as well as in randomly ensure constanze stilts miller is our policy scientist works for us thinktank brookings the nuclear agreement on the european very proud and were always has the iran slowed but not stopped thinking they that he did the atomic has given up dreaming so we say so I am with my neighbors for real agree that I think big distrust must have opposite official announcement from Tehran the iranian play for many many years with multiple narrative levels and truths and multiple but they have also two really good reasons a to pursue nuclear weapon and the hot or Muammar Gaddafi and kim jong-un it have seen that the holiday of can lead to nuclear weapons that someone as muammar Gaddafi in an entourage Western intervention in 2012 by his fellow countrymen was killed and kim jong un is of donald trump extremely treated respectfully because then the commonly held view because he one of nuclear program has and it is wants to and I think that’s a very strong motive for Tehran further into hold this program and how to they are of them will relish this is a really difficult then ask would If this other also with aspects mind with mind with us is the egg they are 2,004 women from iran has fled donald trump the mullahs in tehran actually looks and europeans were too naive and so in good faith in their negotiations with him I have to even say I’m not I fled to the happiness am student as come to Germany but I can Unfortunately not go back because I probably not go back to Germany came but as for the europeans I think they have been naive because they are very much hope in Europe and its never government have set and also very much of what was on board called the Foreign Minister has said of iran have bought already but by I believe Iran had indeed the nuclear deal accept so to speak because they were really financially with their backs to the wall and also as both Israeli and de American security statement was always said this nuclear deal success actually iran it to avoid being on nuclear power and I think if this atom so Now according to the latest Israeli report have the intelligence we So not much time we have to really new compared with the iran negotiate but since we have to ask other is the question of ballistic missiles programs, the human rights issue with respected and contact the iran try to prevent it that is, who up a basically well Calls for a new deal or waiting an extended, the buy-ins in cell Gaub florence they are deputy headmistress at European institute for safety studies and a military sociologist wife gave it very interesting the checkers of nuclear authority certify the iran regularly contract is our faithful distrust therefore unfounded look them in international politics really is not about who is now has actually right or wrong but what the perception is, and I think that’s part of the problem which this deal concerning this that I think this this before back is the deal now was still respected as it is the proof position with whom ignores the fact that the deal in our view to is the atomic iran from a weapons but actually prevent the logic behind it was in 2003 when it started

with the negotiations was a conflict to prevent standing in the space that is now again For us that means of course that our perspective, it’s about the bomb Iranian perspective it comes a military conflict in the military to prevent and I think that the problem we have misunderstood at that time I was not white I would say that it is not the naive of but correct expression is that to heard as a proper realistic deal in where everything fixed but that all Parties to the deal, conflict this also trust and when I say all parties because there is part of the example of me but also Israel and Saudi arabia regional neighbors that the do not trust Iran ultimately trust the usa the iran not that is the deal itself is not the problem but the fact that there is not enough trust and for example, neither Israel nor Iran were negotiating table with the at that time was not involved with that are of course therefore continue to be before distrust the iran over there also good reasons to believe are Iran I would say so what now necessary, it is not a new healed deal with even more procedure even more paragrafen more but they are all right in primarily Context create in the again more trust with the table is brought and I think that leads deal turn into a yes to a then us to the goal does not bring nuclear weapon thomas in Tehran and the iranian no military conflicts and then won again the course referring to donald trump of Heiko Maas obviously relies on deterrence exactly not only with the abrogation this Agreement but also with the killing of general Sulimani he runs yes at least in principle quench the question we were good faith are too trusting here and too trusting to their other across from I do not believe that we are well are believed or trusting but we also have much distrust which has been one of the reasons why there has been agreement at all this We were looking for a way in other then more united with the states along the united states have time for much of this Agreement with negotiated because we said we do not trust the and we want ensure that they towards us undertake not to nuclear weapons develop on the other hand we have this sanctions that have taken place so far exposed it is always a give and to take but I believe that the way the vast more effective than the maximum do drugs and maximum deterrence for since before Agreement states of the atom have quit has nothing improved so we are not exceeded progressed and that is why we say that but this agreement will receive and the want to ask about the things also we speak how is this then further agreement is limited in time we do not agree with the Roll the iran plays in the region in Syria in Lebanon in Yemen also against Israel these are ask to come to the table needs and also with the ballistic rocket program which also includes a threat israel is when you talk about will you need an interlocutor So we also need reasons and offers iran to the table to get over so can ever create trust and I have not the most impressive from the last months that what with maximum pressure of washington it will try a us any furthered step is okay woman stilts miller we must again understand what is the view in washington says donald trump out This agreement is a bad deal because it signed by barack obama was or it really is a So bad agreement in Washington there are different sichtweisen because in this government Different elements are but a is the President and main its main mitspieler particularly its foreign minister raised it even now on the weekend libya conference comes and I believe his verteidigungsminister only times agreed and which is a strategy of this maximum pressure and maximum curing it circulating about the motive of this stop this killing by by by Sulimani the commander of the art brigades various theories that pentagon gave him a powerpoint shown as where the maximum as extreme options because why the other to make plausible and look better and had decided then to there is also the thesis that trumps since 1979 with the hostage takeover so to speak, by American naturalise obsessive vision busy I did believe the correct analysis is that the the main actors in washington Everyone agrees that the strategy the commitment of Obama and his predecessors failed because of the actual speak of target straight Iran back nothing has changed and that the only I can remember so if you skin it personally believe and say many voices in Washington also agree the first of which was establishment international law does matter secondly, is strategically highly problematic that is not

embedded in larger consideration and are therefore washington now and tehran in an escalation logic so to speak, a chained the superstition I for europeans both risk is also an opportunity for lead to the de-escalation of specials because it offers such an escalation is that you can now communicate america is harmful and American interests in government the woman says Austrians now president hu hani he wanted the americans and wants americans from have the Middle east has left him in the way So it has donald in a certain way trump it even helped with the assassination of Sulimani there is now an even better reason to tell the americans out there, the need to region there was indeed a very anti American mood American mood after the killing of so salemi even many moderate vote coupled with nationalism thus a paired fear especially with declaration nationalism has many moderate brought to Iranians behind the to provide government and say do not want, so to speak-interference foreign forces and it was such a very bad mood in the country where I thought that I my friends but lose so now has the mood with the latest after the protests crash of the international trading a bit turned back this also we speak still prevails alica the question how much feels now israel actually trump of donald supported and there is an alternative in your view on this agreement so if agreement does not want and there donald trump is not alone but benjamin Netanyahu also says that is an error and boris johnson says now it’s a bad Agreement has as an alternative So when military options would this nuclear program to destroy you would have probably long since drawn there is an alternative military possibility must all stand at the end that was dialogue must fully be exhausted it is clear now that the americans and israelis believe in maximum pressure believe the europeans probably quite exactly the pressure but european a little less what is established is that the european as the americans the israelis and the golf states all actually strategically is have the same goal you are not united in their tactics ie Germany france england until recently I do not know whether the still the case is believed no dialogue, the pressure pressure well and we stay talking point from israel washington, one often hears pressure pressure pressure-less conversation I think you would perhaps my personal opinion a mittelweg find where to pressure connects conversation it sounds a bit like an illusion of but I mean that part of the diplomacy to somehow with conflict parties but somehow what the conversation at least one is from this European [Applause] nor even to those they yesterday have made and agreement of this wanted to convince from an American view, the current Agreement flawed it runs out it was negotiated by president obama if we give it up so president trump is a great deal maker according to its own disclosures and many others work together let us work together around the atom agreement with Iran by the tram to animal replace the ju instinct so there is the advocate for the tramp dilemmas they want to still convince him or they say we must now actually accept that we are not without politics the usa and certainly not against the usa make do I believe that the do not have to convince at last Sunday boris johnson always just macro and Angela Merkel a common Declaration issued in which he stands in it that we want to get the nuclear deal because we think this is the right basis to all other topics to speak and we are now just this we mittelweg also increase the print therefore we have this dispute settlement mechanism in the nuclear triggered agreement that is now have We meet a deadline of 2 x 15 which can be extended in this 15 2 x 15 must meet with the Iran negotiations be and iraq where to compliance moved his commitment again be if all this does not would work would be the nuclear deal sometime in the Safety Council united nations land and all sanctions would iran against the back called we do not want we want iran his comply with obligations and is therefore the way of Europe exactly the she have described we do not agree that the phases iran now five explains where he keeps saying we put the out and then we put the out but we now want results and we want to

iran, these obligations continue comply again that is, the pressure will now increase it is not without pressure but the pressure must never lead to the talks break off and now the military logic the whole determined because this is the whole close and middle east now too much very become one powder keg and you have to think if I was on iran clicks in the eye that have it which one comes to an entire region easily put in flames and yet once again the argument of constanze stilts miller the killing of Sulimani donald trump has thus also in their hamas eyes a political red line he has crossed international law brought so if we now discussion before any hire in baghdad packed View has local parliament a resolution written and kicking is all foreign armed forces should leave the country this is the anti-coalition there and we support the iraq in the fight against the esd has is no specific territory he but the there are still in the underground now undertakes strokes and when the earnings of the so le mania killing is in Iraq because this as a Sovereignty injury comprehends those from the county are made to iraq with neither building then served in results-iraq iraq on the silver tray and that can really were interest of the United States it is not in our in any case will interest and talk so currently with the Iraqi government and to create the preconditions for that the fight against it continues and the non-iran too simply all this is preparing the ground which it is community but in Iraq again tear down within the shortest possible time again the question has donald trump international law was broken one internationally wrongful attack on will imani and also an Iraqi general in the rain agreed states refer to article 51 of the un charter of the martial law there is no doubt in the run there was strokes on American facilities is not a protest were organized against the American Embassy and the united states say that there specific instructions on upcoming strokes and attacks have been and for this reason is so le mania killed been take this martial law in this claim We do not know any specific information the we would have to assess the recognition to can and apparently there in the American government that yourself discussions about how practical this So are given instructions that must be first time to clarify in Washington before asked ourselves the question whether the sufficient indications are the notes attacks on imminent or so just individual threat and the himself verteidigungsminister it in He has ruled this does not prove which is in Washington still discussed what they believe how great the risk that we use it as a now normal medium of politics View off so people I think that the risk that is always with such actions arises why it so important is the carefully justified and also as part of the possible one must of course also Such decisions will say made on the ground of intelligence findings that one not speak to the media or the can serve breakfast television that is, it’s hard something to establish public but you should very sparingly and handled very carefully because always the risk arises that the principle of So reciprocity the opposite side of the mutual use of the protection most successful in the in military success especially important is that the eroded and I was still times say to the point of israel when I there on benjamin netanyahu or otherwise no opportunity omits can not light between Trump and be even benjamin netanyahu the prime minister of Israel has said this is a matter of American because we were not so involved in it that speaks well walls in this context that he as very reserved and was very quiet had sometimes even the chance such manny and his allies were, how to turn off so it says of course, to kill a euphemism and refrained from because they were, very carefully considered what the consequences and the risks were and perhaps lies and we remember again woman that believes we angela merkel have cited her record in the knesset is German State raison measures the protection israel to to organize what that would mean at the end of this confessional mean for Germany that we protect israel what I want said earlier been what got me iran principle at the discussion on the which is a bit disturbing is that you just the feeling it gets comes to only a geopolitical international problem-it was about nuclear proliferation

this is in the end but does it Not in the core is about how to iran in the international international family integrates and makes as their regional in the Middle East, there is just a big unresolved trouble that is, we can not only these discussion have nuclear deal We also need regional discussion who belong together and I would even say the national discussion as we position ourselves over the protests in Iran on regional level and she said now just israel to this is that it is the simmering conflict in the near and middle east, it is natural to national level saudi arabia iran then it is also teacher level I would say Shiites and Sunnis it plays in lebanon, the hezbollah the hippies are ideologically in any case at least with the iran verbandelt then we know that iran in Syria for plays a role is the list you go little to say that still the time well used the guests at the top of their bailiwick expand yes, but good that if they want can now deep into the indy syria ask board wanted to arrange us this commitment exactly but that we have exactly why because israel also lie in all the others must continue the discussion as a bomb or not it needs to be beautiful the educational go what what role-playing iran region and in the just tell her makes loud angry things that do not seem to be the answer we have now about it gets right pressure and military spoken and now we also ask again after the Israeli position Annika has what they would from the europeans to what I would wish me that wish first many wish I have so I have now but generally I’m unpacking personally on many levels go and I’m also persian I family in Iran I myself have family in Iran and I sometimes have the feeling that I my reuters has indeed reported that now november / december was internet switched off 1,500 people were murdered thousands of people were taken away, we know all what in Evin prison was so happens some people, the behold illegally the world I sometimes feel that we everything and we have a bit not quite want to perceive it as a dismiss bit this stay in the conversation with miller with an Islamist regime which people from what leads people publicly kills women abused raped opposition journalists minorities at is this is a thing that hurts me personally I have family who has town family there it hurts me as Persian as Israelite Of course I just adds that the direct I say now risk there many rockets fußballer syria gaza even take iraq that is a more rocket fronts I say now a threat from various levels and as a German moment I am here I was born here, grew up the is the language the conversations I have sometimes for you as German as I also somehow from history I learned suspects from their own history that innocent people murder or to we look innocent people are murdered, the We’re doing spot-German not We need to be active we can with our own certain not make and of course you have the dialogue first and again the dialogue with friends and with partners and alliances and is desired and that is the problem that He that actually speak of americans europeans the last years not a language to speak you have the west to some there truly Middle east and the middle east the main troublemaker to tame that’s just the Islamist regime in Tehran is it could be the arabia of course, in relation to the personal freedom of the people anything but a democratic state is because there is other reasons we ask again heiko maas had the europeans would Germany mr maas need to do more to This extension of Iranian makes in all states around it as a real fire ring’s built been around the state israel better Protect it would intervene earlier must give europe that is always easy to say because intervene europe that is, that the military so that more player in the region the military logic to follow in Germany and that is within the federal government for many years a heard use that we all repeat the security of israel to our State’s own solution and for that we will always stand up and we wanted before the iran that prevent hire all he in the holding a nuclear bomb is not only because it is a threat to israel but also for many others but because is because it is the position of iran

quite significantly strengthened, we would have just the examples mentioned and north korea therefore, the way we have gone are in my opinion is still the right is not all expectations been fulfilled it must be said, and so you have to also must continue using the other thematic rocket programs about the role in the region talk but resulting in the killing of Sulimani triggered on the one hand the decisions in iraq we that so all other the opponents the first with want to get out have to fight who iran then impact against organized wherein not a single human life around next yes because there iran itself the escalation while he accidentally aircraft shot in which many Iranians sit that’s the whole all the all processes that put into gear also if accidentally happened because the antiaircraft but has now switched once sharply is but a single madness all we say do not want a war one and the best possibility to war prevent is that all at one romantic place and as long as this is not the case and threatened and rocket be fired we will not step progress that is why this conflicts only diplomatically to solve still remaining in time with distrust and even with bread and freedom times but the question American rule the arguments of American government-donald trump is yes to say the time since 2015 has iran excellent use he has spent the money he got not to people in Iran happier make but basically his expand bailiwick and we must there now just as they pursue it follows said earlier the American public in the this logic So I think the American public and above all the needs basis of the will to fight dijon in november 20 20 re-elected to become wants one thing and that is that america is complicated from these and get endless draws from so I think the way I understood have the logic of this, blow is we can whenever we want again sharp slap and has a stronger deterrent effect than if We talk to them but otherwise the long-term goal we say goodbye from these regions and what I currently very closely watch are the very foreign policy debates not only in the hitchhikers administration or in the current Congress but among the young in the young republicans and the democrats the adversaries now against compete japan and I can tell them because there are broad consensus Yesterday there was the first foreign policy debate of the democrats think I ever after six or seven debates in the cathedral in policy was biden said I’m sorry that I was for the iraq war and I have many troops brought home as they can because they can see where the travel goes the tour in the younger republican that is it short-term medium I think it’s reasonable about it think about how we all essential parties get to the table and on an agreement talk about the But mere nuclear program beyond what we have to realize is europeans that we it is in the near future with us to do a middle East have by bubbling everywhere and where we ask a lot more than before and need that we are prepared medium use it to exert pressure to because the usa has to retreat and again to the point of israel our city ​​ration because of course this is completely is correct for good reasons but the also cheap as long as the combined states 95 percent of the actual weight that carry this promise and in a moment where the American outside and security policy so erotic is as now the self-bibi netanyahu So says as we are now not there means the redemption of this promise by Germany against israel completely different things and we have I do not think enough in our own considerations incorporate that’s what us Now as to this is tantamount again even realize how much all still the europeans and especially Germany to these atoms have fought look at them again since trumps termination of the nuclear phase-out terrific failed and the German Foreign Minister promised the Iranians a alternative payment system on dollar promised by broken if lucio when a checkbook issue they should advance their account Check whether they have any money, the

to their promise to redeem or not now can not be more iran stall and whistles agreement on the the europeans solve the so-called Arbitration mechanism from the last step of renewed European economic sanctions the mullahs romp iran president johann i threatened European including German soldiers in the region could be in danger the clock is ticking ever woman was also the europeans have now escalation to last medium resorted namely this conciliation mechanism resorted do not do it so that in the end exactly what would trump donald well it means that a step seen that is attending a at a point arrived where all the other medium have failed so I would interpret for me does not mean that now the europeans the American line I follow would even that agree to this imagine that we are all the same make it that not the purposeful is my in a football game, they also have eleven players and so it works in diplomacy also we as a european have bridge function americans rather a printing function when we work together then we can as much reach and we have much reaches a problem we have and the in fact, we believe that between usa and Europe after year since 2050 signing of the deals apart hiked in the perception I give them an example where we for for more would make can we are talking all the time already all have to a table, it is often that forget this much famous security architecture for the region which was actually an idea after 2015 a a standing kstg quasi for to call the region live iran has repeatedly munich on the years security conference two Also offered again saudi arabia a whole list of things the conference forms matches and so on, and the Saudis have simply said if you why because they washington course of the feeling that you have to get well not make and I think that’s what as I said the need to states from the region to table and bring the as they can are seen I still wonder keyword even before the foreign minister’s turn have female stilt miller same question the europeans with these Arbitration mechanism to Heiko Maas earlier actually did not explain well the last medium drawn into this agreement precisely because the Iranians themselves anyway longer hold off and follow a recommendation donald trump they even extorted should have as least writes the washington post this conciliation mechanism Rantzow So the debate about the single 1 the triggering of this conciliation mechanism has already weeks here and months occurred americans had been jostled earlier times so I would now not so serious to take I think not that the us that the last and ultimate medium of europeans is there, I think we have all sorts of economic and diplomatic pressure methods we among other reasons not use because we within Europe or frequently disagree I think it would be time to talk but I would like a point on we do not yet mentioned here has been and that is the actual opening now to de-escalation what the americans always so so beautiful often call figuratively So spoke the opportunity again one has the high ground is on the catch the falls flagpole booted and properly that again come down and the actual chance also due to the fact that the Tehran regime with these abschuss accidental of Ukrainian passenger machine these massive protests and also very courageous response by by by Iranian citizens and journalist triggered human has that has to the first time made clear and made clear in a long time how thin the ice is on this regime lives as implausible as it is legitimate in its own population and this is again a opening is a possibility to the make-do to say in Tehran to Iran once more under pressure rightly came this regime woman Austrians now actually in relation on the deal even more concessions make believe will do tehran and say yes we consider now again different than we us have been thinking and doing now the concessions that the europeans and the west of us demand that is a very difficult so I ask in seen the last days how irani has once again withdrawn from the deal even threatened and has been completely out withdraw and go out of the agreement I think they are waiting for that one the sanctions, the loosening something I do not think gets delivered

that I is not possible americans admire their attitude that they want to make independent policy without america but I think there needs to the americans because you have to the Bernese which deliver to get even what and therefore we are back to Heiko Maas one and a half years which is often Heiko Maas described is little done by the hire we the Iranians have promised It has thus not the possibility given the us currency and us market writhing transactions with them make first this famous banking is was founded, it has nothing actually little company and given also some states that dared have against the americans negotiations with iran and economic projects with to close the Iran we have the Iranians delivered not good reasons and to say we keep simple today this thing not more so exceptionally not that what true they we say have a so-called payment, michaelis has created who had a warm and index heated the works there are also already has a transactional drug in were worth ten million euros the yet everything handled the left so since iran actually shipped to become It only lacks the import approval of animals so we have a point now even really delivered and in tehran you can easily decision to be taken namely the approval for the import to grant and then, the drug- new beta are needed in iran succeed is he but it went really would before tion all hire matter far beyond the humanitarian deliveries addition, other been transactions after why not essentially it is the Iran question oil to sell and so and that will currently prevented because the united states sanctions have spoken and the company could buy the oil-like to buy it because they otherwise of the United States so little leak therefore to us to do but of course exits through the the americans are agreements in this the possibilities of economic get benefit just less iran become and therefore I agree with them Totally you will only come through understanding both the nuclear-on regional role on ballistic rocket program when the well iran some offer what you can to him now offer when ever not so has really works well what can you give them now offer a economic development of the country and that’s why they were doing so obviously that was it iran possible again to make I think the will will only go economic sanctions now on the united states neither in force were set so the case when it be partially withdrawn and this one is of course something must demand and must be with iran role of his in the region in Syria in Yemen to lebanon talk and achieve agreement that the ballistic missile program I will be expanded in the manner as the currently the case is so it is not just so that you can make iran specials but can the Iranians has he so far has refused to be ready on these topics to talk not only with the europeans with the americans competition concern also very ordinary the security of israel so and now we have it threatens rooney cited even European soldiers So attack the usa allied in the various regions of the world among others in Iraq seriously you have to like the next woman this is not news directed us is but it’s all about the so emirates or the Gulf states generally to where Most bases of europeans are the ie we even very critical, we be there as a hostage in quotes rhetorical hostage used when they remember Aramco of the assassination on the Emirati tanker that is the main front are seen for iran military the gulf states and there are just European bases I would now hang not too high as a actual threat but as a rhetorical medium which is a botschaft which is directed at the end to us but actually in abu dhabi so and then times the question of Antalya and then come we go to the protests in Iran and I it just wants to ask again and one can understand the fact mullabs trust and would this new deal some bring something if you give them does not trust what brings then a new deal is indeed so to ask general you should have great mistrust when it is about the mullahs at all the Shiite theology I do not know whether us one day it is aware if you feels threatened one may lie to to protect themselves ie have the fully equipped the shia and the senses are fully okay then to lie with it and with the Ukrainian press and we were not there are not

only in the silent iran that’s true but these dialogues coming from the shia we have now in Ukrainian party saw passenger machine they tried it anyway under the carpet to sweep the world’s hungary to lie that we have seen in the nuclear deal because for years and we made all sorts of things have that came out of the world trade center from the harvard university has that has the april 2018 a document was out I recommend everyone weighed and before that very often where the iran over and over again the lie would be advanced to that here is world deceived over and over again question is whether in the future they can not but trust be trusted should dare anyway and safety precautions because it is here really to big things this is not a game here that is not game and so we ask quite logical as the situation in Tehran actually really is and how tight this regime still in the saddle she sits remember in Iran was the outrage over the usa initially very big, we were already talking about that and then, the anger of the people on the road against their own government wins the nightmare there Now the moving images, the Iranian air defense missiles hit the Ukrainian airliner with 176 people on shelf Iranian officer considers it a American cruise missile and presses the button three day long denied tehran that a confession is for many Iranians anger too late outrage protests on the streets would tehran that been an ironic aircraft if they had but never admitted that they have shot it myself over the shoulder staged circuit general against America after the murder Sulimani posters are the martyrs tore off and they know exactly what they are doing they risk their life just two months, there was unrest throughout the country trigger was the increase in the sprit price hundreds of demonstrators were shot by revolution garden who or why is the mood tilted in Iran and why they believe that the meaningful protest you can not back knocked down is of so there an insanely large pent-up anger in this company the protests there were always since the beginning of the Islamic republic in 1979 there were various reasons but there was always the distances are smaller regime is the will understand brutal this time have of course the people cheated and lied but felt comes naturally to poverty comes simply mismanagement to come that all the social ills for the discontent over the years away and of course this is even so tolerate always the protests to a certain point and then smash them down we have the days a lot about international law speaking, we have been talking really the killing of slime one again The above international law is also correct and well because we are democrats what We speak very little or do not talk enough, he is the human rights and we have now just seen in the film also did you addressed two it was months in Iran on the street, according reuters 1,500 people by targeted shots from the nearest near killed including 20 children there were people arrested 7000 are families of the killed bullies who are arrested and people now go the road again to have a clear embassy So the people in Iran know very exactly what they want and they have understood that this system does not reformable it is but it also we understood that do not want that a foreign force, so to speak to interfere in the internal affairs and speak to us democracy brings because that does not work that have we have seen in the region the people take to the road and shout for a referendum of mass are here they just sit at the negotiation table with Iran but they demand a open referendum an open referendum on the Islamic republic as a form of government that is what the Iranians want to want to referendum I

as I said I admire their attitude I stand behind them when they say they want to save nuclear deal this but that should not cost on the Iran human rights in and to the hermann region happen these people that there road to the go and which are indeed prior months already have even gone to the street the right to be allowed to express their opinion and even in public spaces in iran, the fashion style as the Iranian management dealt with it is completely unacceptable that we have of European politicians no reaction even after so many dead on the German Bundestag has to a debate took place and that there is and again from the federal government sentenced clarity in all we see this we do so I see do not know whether those who in Iran go to the street currently helps when the Western world iran prompts a referendum too, I believe that that even cheeky terhaer I would like with the talk about iran for this we need a table set can also one of the his demands that one with Iran in discussions addressed such if it or for calculating the regional role But rocket programs iran or Iranian leadership now the possibility to give to say well now demonstrate are all the agents America or of the west have to be careful and now iran ask at the last negotiations you have the human rights issue and not addressed I have the feeling that it always at the back falls down and that’s So never noticed this is also the last time not behind fell down and everything in Iran in happened the last few years, it is us in the human at the human rights ask current human rights report all over again on the table was laid and in all sentenced clarity even when we must do something about it nothing good is it if we here in Germany press releases Send but we need to those who in Iran for responsible are talking about and that is not only mentally but somehow beautiful because you have to also exert pressure to pressure we have exercised is indeed just as in the atom been one agreement that we say if iran no longer his engagements then returns be the economic sanctions of the united nations reinstated and gives apply it all over the world against the iran that we have called medium pressure which we must also take advantage of not only when it comes to the question whether iran a nuclear rocket holds but of course and in the compliance with the human rights as it is always a been subject and where we are and I can assure in the future not subside ruler of league Iranian general apologized, the words after firing these passenger machine he was dead by this error prefer does not that sound to repentance, after So much sound I can not assess personally what’s behind but puts happens in the final result is what happened and as I said has the people take to the road not for the first time are before two months on the road we had they 2009, sometimes we forget the so gold green revolution that is this this this revolution history this unrest over again I think the daily regime go this the end to and what’s really interesting is and since I have something be brought there are very clear pictures showing that something changed what we see in this photo entrance to a mosque and has all the Islamic regime the years demanded by their people on the Israeli on the American flag their shoes deliver So for dirt to trample her from which will make the Iranians now partially and this is no longer a clear also signs of Germany that it really is a change in the land want the regime in Tehran, the we are trying to say is obviously insane under pressure it makes the search for a peaceful unification are now always in munde was lighter or heavier than good academics I say depends it can on the one hand, there is of course, so that a regime of the all sides is under pressure to have talent is to react and we see now we see in Iran but over the protests we see also like iran in the region behaves so this this successively escalation Aramco et cetera the is one of them on the other side that has regime but no other possibilities more that is, it is ultimately relative quickly to the point where it come Concessions must do now what his concerns population has almost no scope for more so it can financially

not many concessions make it ideologically not may actually make and something like it does also Also played at regional level have the means, we should certainly that recognize iran a weakening position is and exactly therefore actually the window for negotiations is favorable has woman said please no external influence more woman has stilts miller Interestingly, said the americans will sooner or later withdraw because of regime change moreover also not particularly good have made experiences throughout nahost the reason is still the to say hopefully this system is now ever so in a compromised position that we thereon hope we can have in itself very hoped that the Arab spring was indeed I believe that the regime is But defensive know the regime in the defensive often then excessive reactions produce ie this is possible but so that’s certainly not without danger we have a point not yet if as I believe to be important and that’s here when the americans withdraw what my view not to their interest in but I think the general trend is other powers space there we use have already mentioned Russia We have not mentioned the china become the largest customer of oil and gas is from the Middle East and that is why, increasingly, compounds builds relationships builds to the regimen and government of the region and both russia and china now play pretty aggressive also policy in the European space and we should be clear that if the americans to not retire just overall well say more volatile risky investments often is but but the Russia continue that and china in our immediate neighborhood making positions take which is also politics to our and our So effective is what interests vacuum is filled and do not follow it putin for us will probably even the hands rub least say that the one or the other critic even if the situation mr maas were today in bengasi there is a libya large conference on Sunday here in berlin is libya times in context to asked also an example of this is what may have actually follow for fatal if one seeks a regime change and if foreign powers try governments just under too much pressure to set or bomb did away the shows was so capable that lead So libya, there are still many individual factors contributed to you can not have it all compare But if the development in Libya so will be kept running then libya be the next syria and we do not want to let it come therefore we have for Sunday after berlin all states invited some as this conflict are influenced a lot of those are many putin will be there is erdogan the ensi team from Egypt to pump out the united states, the european will be there all and we want it that ensure all once again to communicate their support for a the two civil war parties adjust either faulty or or salad instead tripoli and to the art and as there is a weapons embargo that too is adhered to one that armistice give is today by general liable as he assures been is now once more also is maintained But the whole has one then political process that will follow under the aegis of the united nations happen to this country in can create the perspective of the can succeed in one place the libya succeed louder when around it are country and with many insane religious political economic military conflicts, it is in libya succeed they believe So we will do everything to ensure that it succeed I think the fact that it are so many conflicts in the region makes it all the more necessary is it to engage the conflict for conflict with a political solution is provided and I love we are at the moment more than we have so far ever been and still no one can predict how the will go out but we have a point is reached at which all influential addition to the states then committed these influences turn off no military to make support more and if it succeeds to sunday decide with all involved then the next step would be that the weapons first silent and then all and above all the two hire civil war parties to a table can be called for it to on how to permanently peace in can create syria and our discussions recap follow does not need much more in the focus the european European also get governments

indeed opposition movements and democratic civil rights movements to support when we do that so far have who we are as europeans basically always on the side democratic movements I have our problem-I support, I say it this principle is a principle but I think where we quarreled so far have with the europeans is for us democratic elections and I think that’s what kind of fashion as happened in Libya in 2012 were also in Egypt 2012 election systems, the general situation of are not adjusted and I think so we have a step back do say democracy is actually not elections and especially not elections urgently to quickly gain a company that might has already fallen out anyway or So a dictatorship comes out of It was therefore for us a learning process but I am still optimistic that ultimately that the correct style before hire all we should do may I express my sincere with them all thanks we give to immediately markus further lance under today others stefan pasture to the hospitable prime minister of Lower Saxony they come well through the night many a heartfelt thank you no thanks [Applause]