Apparently Not ALL (Formerly) Autogynephilic Trans People Hate Me or Science/Facts/Reality

for those of you who’ve watched my videos you know that I haven’t put out one for quite some time it’s been a while that I’ve been trying to get back on track following my open-heart surgery it sent me back professionally quite a bit so this is the first video in quite some time I’m doing it because I have a guest on all the way from the Netherlands Jay a Braun and he reached out to me in January after having seen my interviews with dr. ray Blanchard and other discussions on Twitter with regard to trans issues and J a has a lot of very important personal philosophical scientific and experiential information to bring and I thought this would be a great discussion on at least two very important phenomena within the trans world and J a is a linguist and maybe you’ll incorporate all that into our discussion okay so I have a few questions that were sent to me by coda followers but before that I would rather just you know start with your discussion on what you think people need to know and okay how your story please so I consider myself to have been the victim or fallen prey if you will do rapid onset gender dysphoria I am became gender dysphoria and then I transitioned male to female and lived as a woman until late last year I would say like the summer of last year okay and yeah and then I I don’t like the word D transition because D transition implies that you’re going back to being the same person you were before so I don’t like to call it that because you know of the life experience that I’ve had over the past eight years hasn’t just disappeared Israel valid I just let’s say that I found peace again with my male sex and also the masculine gender role to some extent and so I’m a very different person now than I was before transition right yeah so do you have a particular phrase that you would like to do you know let’s let’s use D transition anyway because people understand that so but with it I may add that it’s that I don’t like to use it because of what I just said sure okay now you also have a girlfriend that you said has gone through a very similar experience it was about her she became gender dysphoria she was 15 and she transitioned female to male she hasn’t actually gone as far in a transition as I have because I went through taking hormones and all that changing my name and gender legally and she hasn’t done any of that she only transitioned socially okay but she also lived in that role for about eight years and she she’s four years old younger than me so we’re about the same it started around the same time and she started desisting so just maybe that’s a better word okay maybe she started she started desisting around shortly around the time we met shortly before we met and then I was going through my own personal issues with gender identity and masculinity and actually I believe that our relationship accelerated depth because she was encouraging me to embrace my my body and the male gender role okay and so you say that would have happened anyway but it went faster because and when was that when did you first meet uh about a year ago a year ago yeah okay so you had been a living this changing life for about seven or eight years yes before meeting oranjee both started around 2009/2010 but she was younger than yes she’s she’s she’s four years younger than you so I’m 28 she’s 24 now okay so she was about 15 or so yeah your people saw you two together right now would they think here’s a typical male-female couple like what would they think of yeah I would say we look pretty much like a typical heterosexual couple I enjoy being male and I enjoy to some extent or to a great extent actually having a male role in our relationship or well while she has the feminine role so obviously we both know about each other’s gender history and we don’t deny it we know there has been a thing in our our lives and that we to the outside world we’re pretty much indistinguishable from two people who have never gone through any of that right okay and you know what you just said brings up the natural question which is you say you enjoy being in the male role she’s in the female role so how do you define that well the reason I say to some extent is because you know

if I’m talking to somebody in the queer or trans community I might say that I’m a little bit gender non-conforming okay or maybe non-binary or something like that because nowadays what it means to be sis I get accused of being sis these days as if that were a bad thing that you can accuse somebody of because to have to enjoy your physical body and accept your sex seems to mean now that you support the oppression of women by men and toxic masculinity and all of these things and so if that’s what this means then you know who wants to be that but so that’s that this that’s why I make that distinction but in outside of that world like to the outside world you know I am just for all intents and purposes of men similarly it doesn’t mean that I agree with all of the roles that exist in our society for men at this point but it does mean that let’s say traditional or symbolic masculinity the masculine role responsibilities independence and all of these things that are considered traditionally masculine that I identify with those things yeah and for your girlfriend yeah and because when people say gender expect exists on a spectrum which I disagree with but I do believe that within each gender of course is a wide spectrum how masculine or how feminine right so where does she fall as far as the feminine given that she had transitioned previously so she still likes to wear boy clothes occasionally and she’s not what you would say a difficult feminine woman she’s pretty much a tomboy but in our in our relationship our roles are very much I am masculine and she is feminine so there’s there’s a very gendered division of roles but if you ranked her out of like hundred women she would not fall to worse than the most feminine end of the spectrum but more bit in the middle let’s say sure yeah okay and sadly I mean this has become such an issue because in the old days look someone’s a little bit more masculine someone’s a bit more effeminate there was no real issue around that exact accepted it right now it’s become some even say calling her a tomboy you’ll have people coming out of the woodwork saying no no no she’s really you know trans answer right well that is what she used to believe yes he exactly that is where the social contagion part of gender dysphoria comes in because you know the way she described it to me and there’s also other reasons but I can’t go too deeply into those but she became dissatisfied let’s say with the feminine role or the female gender because of you know all this stuff above if you don’t like pink where she does by the way but if you don’t like playing with dolls and all of this stereotypical stuff then you’re not must not be a woman and the same but opposite for men right and nowadays we are both mature enough to look past ads and we stopped calling ourselves trans because we we both like our bodies and we both believe that gender roles are desirable regardless of you know the exact content of the gender roles like I said I don’t necessarily agree that the roles we have now for men and for women are the way they should be but the fact that there are separate role for men and women we believe that’s a good thing we know statistically speaking that tomboys for example are more likely to be lesbian or bi so yeah we’re both bisexual and I’m just curious the nature of your relationship yes do the two of you consider yourselves exclusive are you open exclusive exclusive and therefore the fact that we’re both bisexual doesn’t really matter right because you know we’re in an exclusive relationship with each other and we plan to be forever so okay yeah so basically you both have actually made a decision though that you will only act on one aspect of your sexuality if you’re gonna be exclusive with each other yes and we do involve gender plays sort of in our relation but only on her side so I am always masculine and she may be girly or boyish depending okay so one question about when you talk about taking on different roles within sex play I don’t want to get too graphic but what would that actually look like with her playing the more male role she it’s not really the more male oh it’s just um she might like to wear boy clothes and have me call her a boy from time to time but other than that it’s all pretty much the same division of roles I see I meant because I thought you were saying like within the sex play that there was yeah but it doesn’t mean that she becomes the top or anything like that right the division is very clear I’m the top almost above I say yeah okay so it’s more about her identity rather than

fractions er yeah she still gets a little bit dis for occasionally especially on her period and I accept that so I leave that open to her like she can be boys nah man then if she wants but there’s this is so this is within the context of sexual play and outside of that in in real life we both accept that I am male and that she is female right yeah okay and you said that she had only transitioned socially yeah if I could ask does she bind her breasts at all okay so she doesn’t she’d still has a binder but she doesn’t use it anymore okay so so socially meant not medically known every day never had an Easter I’ve never had any surgeries either but I did take hormones for maybe two years in total I took him first and then I stopped and I started taking them again it was very convoluted okay and because you were at that time over 19 you were taking cross-sex hormones yes I was taking testosterone blockers and also estrogens right have you checked because of course this is the big controversy that you know we’re the risk of sterilization yeah have you looked into that just so after the first time I stopped hormones and before I went back on them again I had my fertility tested at a fertility laboratory and it turned out that I was still I still had normal male fertility and then I banked my sperm at a sperm bank before I started taking hormones again and now you do hear that after what is it a year or two years on cross-sex hormones you’re permanently sterile but I believe that I am still fertile I haven’t had it checked yet since then the next time since the the second time I found hormones okay because my fertility went back to normal after the first time I have reason to believe that it’s the same now but I I don’t know for sure but in any case I can still have children because I have that fertile right so you didn’t want to take that chance and so actually always one of the main things that helped me back from transitioning because a lot of these young trans people are gender dysphoria people that I were talking to at the time I had no interest in having children we’re having a family so for them the fertility issue was not an issue they were only interested in transitioning as fast as possible and I always had that edge so to speak because I have always really wanted to have a family and to have children of my own if you met started transitioning earlier or sorry do you think that you would have been similar to them and thinking not so much about the family or you saying you’ve always had that inclination it’s hard to say but I want to say no because this desire of mine to my own children and my own family has been Dara Singh’s I was maybe four or five years old so they’ve been there for a long time all right and a lot of people of course anytime someone raises the issue of hormones potentially you know permanently yes right or even surgically changing your body people call that transphobic etc so being somebody who has been in the midst of that and talked to a lot of females that what do you think about these concerns maybe what precisely is considered transphobic oh just mentioning the fact that taking cross-sex hormones can potentially firmly sterilize and then this you know the surgery itself what if you regret it what if you want to change our related your body so people consider that being transphobic and just so we’re clear anytime I say mutilation of a body I’m referring to people who regret their decision if they’ve transitioned and they’re happy with it I will call that you know a surgery rather than mutilation but if you’ve done something you oh my god that was a horrible mistake I think you’ve mutilated your body I tend to agree and also just for the people who don’t know me just so they know where I’m coming from I’m absolutely not against transitioning or being trans or taking hormones having surgeries in and off itself I’m just against people doing it too easily because they feel gender dysphoria and nowadays it’s being pushed as the only cure for gender dysphoria right which many of the trans activists will deny they say no the W path makes it very clear and I know in my experience is talking with a number of people and patients families and therapists that it is being pushed and this prudent approach supposedly being you know promulgated by the W path it’s not actually happening it makes you this might be interesting for a jurors I’m from the Netherlands and in the Netherlands we had one of the first gender yes I think the first in Europe and also one of the first to work with children yeah and as recently as maybe 2010 when I was beginning my transition it was still considered normal practice to whenever a child presented with gender or an adolescent presented with gender dysphoria to first try to have them come to terms with their

next body because the statistics show very clearly that the majority of adolescents eventually desists right and and they become either heterosexual or homosexual but they stop feeling generous for it and they stop wanting to transition and this was considered normal back then still and suddenly within the space of a few years we’ve all these organizations pushing transition as the only way and access to puberty blockers and if you are even a little bit cautious you’re instantly transphobic yeah and potentially sanctioned as a professional that’s also very very dangerous yes and I just found the whole free speech issue also and also just the idea of best practice yes if there are alternatives to surgically altering somebody or potentially sterilizing them why would we not explore that for absolutely and that was common sense for the longest time it was all of his activism and here’s the reverse thinking here so instead of saying a bunch of activists got very vocal and were able to in the most famous case of course is right here in Toronto and we were able to force dr ken Zucker out of his position they shut the clinic down instead of accepting that this was a purely political sabotage instead of seeing that this is what happened people are saying the fact that it was closed down is evidence that something bad must have been going on yes back where exactly is the two major clinics the one in Toronto which was shut down and the one of the Netherlands let’s take a wait-and-see approach yes rather than pushing somebody into a path that as you say we know most people will desist from and it hasn’t always been that way because I was very deep in circles of trans activists and I never called myself one but in my social circle largely consisted of them and I’ve been to these places to de gender clinics and I’ve seen the controversy play itself out and I’ve seen the W path standards of care being changed through activism and the dsm-5 being changed F activism and all of that so I’m I was quite involved in all this and you know because my entire social circle was in favor of what they call trans rights which they see as I supposed the right to immediately be given access to transition whenever you say you want it right and you know they’re always complaining about gatekeepers and stuff as if gatekeeping were only a bad thing right right but so I was very involved in those circles and that’s why I believed that it was the right course of action to change all these things and do to promote you know fast and easy transition let’s say and it was only after what happened in my personal life because I saw that transitioning was not making me happy ultimately in the beginning it did but ultimately it did not end because of my experience I came to look at it with a different eye so to speak and come to realize it actually the way we’d been doing it all along with this prudence what do you call it Prudy agency yes that was actually the best way to do it and it should have stayed that way that’s what I now believe right and sadly it’s just been called conversion therapy which is another area same thing it’s ridiculous it’s such an appropriation so I want to rush in because there’s so many things I want to cover with you one of them is when I first mentioned that I was gonna speak with you I had a bunch of people on Twitter saying if he has Auto gyno philia it’s not rapid onset gender dysphoria that’s something different how dare he you know how dare he appropriate the term our og D so this is gonna touch upon a lot of things and I was like you have free rein could you please describe how you came to feeling you know quote-unquote trans or gender non-conforming and before you go on just one thing because you mentioned earlier I just want to head people off at the pass people will say that the 80 90 95 percent stats about kids insisting it’s only because these kids truly weren’t trans they were gender non-conforming I have something to say about that what I have to say about is that is largely a matter of definition isn’t it what does it mean to be trans is kind of the issue like is it it’s even possible to be cysts and then be trans and then be sis again these are episome illogical questions they relate to how we construct our perception of reality and that’s not trivial because you know the way we construct our perception of reality influences the way we we live the way we exist in the world and I am the living proof of that right but my personal opinion is that it’s more helpful to use definitions that are practical so saying somebody is trans would mean they transitioned and if you transition and then you stop transitioning and you go back then or

you desist then sure why not say this person was trans and now they’re not trans anymore hmm because when you say the person was never trans all along then to me that kind of invalidates the whole the whole part of their lives where they transitioned it’s almost as if that never happened which it did so I don’t think that’s a helpful way of thinking about it and to me gender non-conforming kind of captures everybody and jazz doesn’t neatly fit into a category as gender non-conforming yeah and there’s nothing wrong with that but the thing that drives me crazy is when these activists say well since they were gender non-conforming we shouldn’t include them in the stats and I’ve said this many times dr. Blanchard said this if I see a kid whose gender non-conforming no one can predict with a hundred percent certainty whether this child will you know develop into just to be a typical sees males gay gay male straight male trans person you can’t predict right from the beginning so should we not have such prudence and say well maybe there’s a one-third chance er of an percent chance or something that family and the trans activists have a really hard time recognizing that yeah well this is why I am against the narrative of the essential gender identity because it seems like the way these trans activists think and now it becomes a philosophical or ideological problem instead of a practical problem because the way they see the world apparently people have this sort of innate spiritual I would almost say magical gender identity that just exists almost exnihilo and it’s just there whether you see it or not and was always there so whatever you are that’s what you were all along and people can find out that they’re trans so if you present with gender dysphoria that you desisting you were mistaken all along and it’s very difficult logically but somehow they always rationalize it and but I think it’s not practical it’s much more practical to look at what’s happening right here we ear is a child or an adolescent they’re presenting with gender dysphoria what’s it cause of the gender dysphoria is it going to go away you don’t know so you wait and then eventually either it goes away or it doesn’t and if it doesn’t then you should take steps to transition further right yeah because I I do acknowledge that there are I mean I have a sister who is transgender and I live with somebody who is transgendered so I’m not against transition as a solution at all I acknowledge that there are people for whom that is really the best course of action but I’m cautioning against those for whom it is not right and by the way when said you have a sister was your sister born male or born yet no for me okay okay so she’s she’s transition okay yeah the whole thing with the nomenclature wanting to be sure exactly when you mentioned nomenclature also the just now where you were speaking about gender nonconformity we used to just say this child is gender non-conforming or whatever but they’re male or they’re female right and nowadays in these activist circles all of the variations of gender get ratified in two separate identities right and that’s now I’m thinking of what Jordan Peterson said he said if you just keep distinguishing between smaller and smaller minorities of people then it never ends right you know it just leads more different literally two more divisiveness if people start playing oppression Olympics because I have so and so identity rest more marginalized and yours and therefore and so on and so on all right and simply what we should be looking at is what is in the best interests of an end exactly and that that gets lost in this whole discourse to her because you know as as a clinician to the Hippocratic oath is first do no harm right and I feel that’s almost gone completely out of the window as people are doing harm harm is being done right now in the name of political correct yes identity politics and that’s why I be making all these videos yes because that’s also why I wanted to be here because this is important that this we get the word out exactly and so I have a real-life person who has gone through several stages different ways you’ve experienced it on in different there’s different subtext so as I said earlier right let’s jump right into it could you please describe how you first came to oh yes that’s what you were asking um as a boy growing up I struggled with masculinity a lot I felt not masculine enough to compare to other boys and I was bullied a lot I felt very low confidence or self-esteem and nowadays I I think this might be related to me being bisexual which I knew when I was eleven okay but I sort of forgot about that nowadays I think it might have something to do with it also when I was 14 years old my father died and he had been my my best friend and also my

number-one male role model and you know my mother raised me as a single mother from then on and she did a wonderful job but she was just not capable of giving me the kind of support that my father gave me because my father was teaching me what it was what it meant to be a man right and so I didn’t know what it meant to be a men so I was his boy who didn’t want to grow up to be a man or didn’t want to grow up at all even and at the same time my male sexuality was developing normally so I was having two sexual desires of men and I came to resent the male sex or the masculine gender and at the same time I was reading feminists lecture so to say and and reading about how men have been oppressing women and all these things right and reading about things like male aggression and all of these personality traits associated with males and with females and all of these influences just led me to really hate everything that was male or masculine about myself right and I thought well if that’s what it means to be amend and I don’t want to be a man before we go further just so I’m clear a few things your father unfortunately passed when you were 14 14 so what you’re describing now this whole struggle with what it means to be mailed so on yeah was that already before he had passed away or was that mostly afterward it was mostly afterwards because at 14 that’s kind of where puberty starts to hit really badly before it was there but it was not so pronounced let’s say it was not as big of an issue okay and you said that you as your sexuality was developing around age 11 you recognize that you were bisexual yes did you ever share that with your parents at that time no but I did share it with other other children and they laughed at me so that experience sort of taught me that it was not all right to be bisexual to talk so openly about it right so when I say bisexual I do mean with a preference for women on the Kinsey scale that would be I forgot which way it goes it goes zero is totally heterosexual sixes total yes so that would be one or two or the Kinsey scale because I had sexual fantasies involving women and because I wanted to live with a woman and have a child and everything right I came to sort of sweep my bisexuality under the rug because I thought it was irrelevant okay it was practically largely irrelevant I never had sex as an adolescent I didn’t have sex until I was 19 when all of this gender dysphoria stuffable right okay and you were saying that your father was the role model yes but you said that also that you were not as the same masculine as the boys were you didn’t feel like well when I said that I meant mostly after my father passed oh so so as a younger child then if now if I spoke to your family and everything if they were would they say that j.a was typical normal five-year-old 10 year old 12 year olds well I’ve always been a bit atypical but not strictly in a gender sense but I have if you do an IQ test it shows at a very high cubed with a very big gap between the verbal and peripheral IQs so I was considered gifted as a child but only in certain aspects of my my logical reasoning and my analytical thinking is way better than for example my spatial aware and so on so I was always an awkward kid but not necessarily in a gender right like if there’s actually when I first told my mom that I was transgender and that I wanted to be a girl she she was surprised because as a kid I never seemed particularly feminine I seemed really masculine as a kid okay and as you know of course with the plaid shirts taxonomy yes that’s a huge distinction exactly and I’ve been reading about this stuff endlessly because I was so desperate to understand myself and write where it’s all coming from doctors Blanchard and Bailey have talked about how people thought of an philia they have this complete revulsion or their genitalia their male genitalia yeah what was your experience like so the thing that happens in the state that I was in at a time and this is not limited only to me you can look it up there’s many trans people who talk about this you become disgusted with everything that’s male or masculine about you and sometimes that extends all the way to the genitals and other things like for example I don’t know facial hair is a very common thing body hair those were things that I found absolutely disgusting and it was actually so bad that I had social anxiety to the point where I couldn’t leave my house if there was a couple hairs on my cheeks and the genitals I have had periods where I wanted to have and remove – after surgery and then there were periods where I was more or less okay with them and the the thing the reason I believe that had never got so bad for me that I really hated my genitals was because of my male sexuality which still existed all the

time and also one thing I believe has to do with what they call a giant amendment ophelia or auto china momento Philly is have you heard of that so there’s a traction to women or the self as a woman and there’s attraction to males that look like females or people there’s a general more fulfilling as another of these terms people have the characteristics of both males and females and that can also go into your self-image so there are people who want to be female and then there are people who want to have like so-called females people who have male primary sex characteristics and female secondary sex characteristics or just feminine males it’s like a gradient there’s like different variations of it which is also my critique of the the two type model but so I had both Auto Johnny philia and Auto China momento philia or Auto China and Rome or fulfill a whatever so I believe that limited my hatred of my genitals there’s no accent okay and the whole theory of with AGP that is the erotic target location on earth would you say that fits well I I read an Warren’s work and when I came across the term erotic target location ere ever my blood really ran cold because it seemed to really hit the nail on the head and then it got me thinking about how human sexuality works and again I described this in in some of the writing that I showed you I believe that it’s parametric so there’s one setting for what you are attracted to right and then there’s one setting so to speak for where that is located in self or the other and through whatever process developmentally that the target can become located on the inside on the self instead of on someone else I mean I’m not a neurologist this would need to be experimentally tested of course but from some logical thinking and from what I’ve seen in you know paraphilic circles and whatnot that is what I’ve come to believe right yeah and somebody on Twitter just the last couple of days they were talking about paraphilias and was interesting because they were saying that this you know erotic target location error yeah the fact that we see this with different fetishes we see with furries with other kids like it explains all these different phenomena including transwomen who Julia so my theory if you will is that these sexual attractions come in pairs there’s like being attracted to let’s say an animal and there’s attraction to being an animal there’s an attraction to children and there’s an injection to being a child it and right also for men and women and for doing things to other people or having things done to you and that seems to have great explanatory power in explaining all these these various paraphilias that at first sight make no sense at all there’s such a resistance of course to lassard’s typology mostly from a GP i’ve heard them say it that to have your whole identity reduced to a paraphilia yeah well yeah and that’s also where I believe that some logical thinking maybe of eight on the one hand it’s that people get too upset about talking about their own sexuality and they can’t look at the facts straight because they are embarrassed about them but also on the other hand the theory needs to be adjusted a little bit because it does seem when you read it that the whole attraction through the self as a woman is a completely sexual thing and I also thought you know it doesn’t necessarily need to be because I started talking about what is sexual attraction really what is sexual pleasure what does it mean to derive sexual pleasure from something and then I thought well maybe the way it works in the brain is that there’s there’s pleasure centers like that respond to dopamine or whatever and they get activated by things that we like such as eating or you know temperature any kind of stimuli and in normal people only sexual stimuli produced the kind of pleasure that’s erotic or sexual in nature that sexually arouses but it could be that there’s people whose brains have the the setting turned up too high so to speak so that normal things like wearing certain clothes produce sexual arousal so what I’m saying is I do believe that there’s a non sexual or non Radek component to the whole thing and people are skeptical about that but I do believe that that exists yes if some people it may be more sexually focused and in our prices with it also with cross-dressing some people derive great sexual pleasure from processes like they wear sexy clothes and they masturbate in front of the mirror and these things and other people just enjoy cross-dressing when they go

out socially and some people like both so right it needs to be specified for yeah and and when it does have to do with sex people have to feel less creeped out of it and it’s sexist I really so I’m I would describe myself as a sex positive person right I I’m not saying that we should be hedonists and become completely caught up in sexual fantasy but I do think that we should look at it with a let’s say a favorable I or a merciful I so to speak and accept that all of these so-called perversions are really quite harmless most of them and that there is no shame in being aroused by things that are slightly unusual or even very unusual as long as you’re not hurting anybody right and that’s again people will ignore the last sentence the last part said as long as you’re not hurting anybody because they go aha you’re you know you’re defending pedophilia oh here we go again right that’s why I love to bring it into the conversation because that’s kind of my litmus test for how objective and logical can someone be when discussing complex issues and it doesn’t get more complex than when it comes to sex and and Lawrence as he mentioned before her becoming what we love I thought that’s just so wonderfully expanded Blanchard’s typology to what you were just saying where sometimes it’s more on the sexual yeah sometimes it’s more on the non-sexual maybe it’s the romantic the social so political correctness has gotten much worse over the last number of years but it’s it’s been there for quite some time and so when you said that unfortunately tragically you lost your father at such an important developmental age as a male yeah and if it was your mother that would have had an impact on you as well definitely for people to deny that parent place some rule anyone who knows my history knows I’ve got a very non typical family my siblings are gay I’m not saying any way is worse or something but we do know that different variations in family dynamics will lead to different variations that a child’s develops the fact that you brought that up and I didn’t know that for psychologists like you’re like oh yeah I can really understand how the loss of his father at that age would lead to this what I deal with certain patients who’ve lost a mother whether they’re the male or the female of course I think about how that would affect in today’s world of insane political correctness yes how dare I even say that I know heresy like when Jordan Peterson said that the was it the heterosexual nuclear families like the smallest viable unit that you can reduce it they were calling him homophobic because he said heterosexual and you know of course there have been many cases of single parents or same-sex couples raising children with wonderful outcomes sure but it’s preposterous to think that you know those differences don’t affect the way the child grows up in any way exactly that’s beautiful ignorant that’s bloodiness yeah and I think it’s it’s reprehensible because again you’re denying the fact that these changes in your case there was a change parents didn’t decide this obviously would have a huge impact on one’s development and in this case we’re talking about your identity yes you know both gender identity and personal identity right so so you developed again anyone looking at you would say okay it’s a bit of an awkward child because of this or that but they wouldn’t say aha there’s some issue with gender right um no one aside from the few peers that you first came out to knew about your sexuality or sexual orientation so at what point did it become more let’s say public and how did and and so far so much does that plus how did your a GP itself or the autobot affiliate developed so those are two of the question those are two very different questions that both of them require kind of long answer but please do to go in through the first one after I graduated high school my social life sort of disappeared and I started living mostly secluded in my bedroom in my mother’s house at the time and you know mostly interacting with the outside world online and a lot of that what I was getting into was sexual and you know and what age is this in another 18 so yeah you graduate high school at 18 no currently speaking all right and I didn’t want to go to university because I didn’t know what I wanted to study yet and so there was a whole year where I did work for a bit but mostly spent alone in my in my bedroom and I I spend a lot of time on the internet and I became drawn to trans women really and I think this is also related to my bisexuality again because a lot of trans women have properties of

both males and females right so it’s sort of doing I mean we all know the young the stereotypical pornographic notions that exist but anyway so I liked cross-dressing not cross-dressing myself but the idea of cross-dressing yet to look at and and trans people and you know people playing around with gender and all these things and so I got into these let’s say communities and there were a lot of let’s say trans girls young adolescent or young adults males who were transitioning into female right and and they’re all talking to each other so this is nowadays you hear it’s mostly females is mostly 15 16 year old girls on tumblr and whatnot but I think back then it was still mostly males yes and but the social contagion thing is the same either way so people were talking about how they were transitioning and they were showing their timelines of what they call progress and stuff and talking about the medication and how to go about it all how to tell your parents and all these things and so I started living mentally in this world before I decided that you know I want to do this as well and this actually ties into the auto China feeling a little bit because I started idealizing the idea of being feminine or even to be female but you know I know that it’s not possible for a male to become female but you can make yourself look like a female sure and people will think this is controversial too but I’m sure you know what I mean and Slyder yeah so I started idealizing the female shape or the female form or femininity and somehow that in inside my brain that got tangled up into desiring it for myself and I started and this is also because I was rejecting my own masculinity so you put two and two together then it’s fairly easy to make this development so it developed into me wanting to be female or feminine and I was looking at these these people who were transitioning and it seemed to make them so happy they were always going on about how much they liked their new bodies and being you know how good transitioning was for them so then I decided I wanted that but I didn’t dare go to the the gender clinic in the Netherlands because I had been hearing these stories about how they are too strict and they make you prove that you’re really trans and I was afraid of that I was very embarrassed and ashamed to go to sort of procure hormones illegally online and that’s how I started self-medicating this isn’t this didn’t happen until I was 21 by the way everyone so I spent two years living in a female gender identity before I transitioned medically yeah okay and I came out you said when did I come out first to my mother around age 19 or 20 and then socially at 20 and first for a small group of people and later to my my old friends who had known me before from high school and stuff as as a boy right so just so I’m clear um so at that age twenty twenty one year you’re socially transition is were you doing any in private cross-dressing before that and was oh I didn’t like the idea of cross-dressing while not transitioning because in these these these uh let’s say forums or image boards or these online communities that I was in there people were always talking about how creepy crossdressers are and how it’s just a fetish to them and we’re not like that and all of this stuff which later I learned is also very common for trans women to distinguish themselves from cross dressers because one is seen as more dignified than the other let’s say and so I didn’t want to crossdress for sexual gratification because that made me feel bad so now I did cross France of course but at the time I didn’t really think of it as cross-dressing because I already had the female identity so it was just a girl dressing like a girl in my head so this but that’s around twenty twenty-one yes okay I’m trying to work all this out so the sexual component yeah was your attraction to these trans women or that so there’s attraction to women and then there’s attraction to trans women specifically right and I had both mm-hmm yeah okay so hearing this do you think people are gonna say since you’re bisexual yeah then truly you’re really gay but you just can’t admit it so you would be a homosexual transsexual or would they say no he’s really straight okay so I told you that I have a preference for women yes right I am four or five on the Kinsey scale during the time when I was living as a

transfer when I was actually exaggerating the homosexual part of my bisexuality a lot oh okay for similar reasons because it to me it felt more dignified to be a girl who likes boys or it made me feel more validated like I was really a girl if I like boys and so I was constantly downplaying my attraction to women and you know exaggerating how much I like men and I I do like men but I do not really like the idea of being the receptive partner with Ryan right so I was making that up let’s say to come across as more feminine or more naturally feminine or whatever and that also ties into the to type Blanche arts theory or I’m transsexual which I will have links to yes and it’s funny because you said you’re playing up the homosexual aspect and there are some people who would say but wait because you were in the female identity at that time and you’re with men that’s not homosexual that’s they had this hurts people get their minds dassault was so it was difficult for me because I was living as a woman so I wanted the attraction to men to feel heterosexual right because maybe that’s a bit of home before we are and maybe it’s just being afraid of being a lesbian trans woman because there’s stereotypes about them they’re nerdy they’re creepy and so on right at the same time while while I was thinking all these thoughts on a certain level on a different level I was having I was still dealing with my own sexual attraction to women in which I am the male so I have them I have the male role or the top role and I throughout these all eight years of transition that was a constant issue that kept returning where I feel I felt distress caused by this discrepancy because what I want to be socially and what my sexual desires are telling me on this deeper level right and as I believe that’s the the main part that eventually led me to stop transition sorry that which part the the part of my yes the discrepancy I very good psychologists in the Netherlands who was specialized in psychosexual issues and he helped me immensely he helped me come to terms more with my sexual desires and you know my stop seeing my male sexuality as a as a bad thing because he told me that there was no shame in it and and I thought okay but then the consequence of that is that I’m going to give up living as give up or you know desist from living as a woman right which I did right and I know that when I mentioned that on Twitter and I said is gonna interview you a number of people wrote and said well how does he know that the AGP is really gone yeah to me um so just for anyone who doesn’t know they are saying it comes back off in like 10 20 years later you know Lisa 10 years usually I think the reason they’re saying that is because there have been known cases of males who were Auto John I feel like when they were in their early 20s maybe and did some cross-dressing may be socially transitioned to bits and then you know what’s the words put it away again and and try to as best they could to live in the masculine role right and then when they’re 40 and maybe they’re divorced and have two children then it comes back and they decide to transition anyway and usually after a big moment of stress we always yes always about stress in their life writings so the reason I don’t believe that will happen to me is that I’ve already been through the whole thing including hormones and I know what it feels like to live as a trans woman and it was just not bringing me the joy that I thought it would and also I people tell me I’m very good-looking as a man I have a very happy relationship with the woman and so there are not really any influences or stressors that I can foresee in the future that would I just can’t imagine it at all I don’t want it because you see and I believe also that people are not just objects of their environment who have no saying what happens but people can exercise will full control over what they do with their own lives mm-hmm so you know a lot of trans people say well the feelings are too strong and I couldn’t overcome them but I have zero interest in being trans anymore or female so I just cast those feelings aside I mean they’re not there but if they came back which I cannot imagine I’d cast them aside okay and some people would argue because again I’ve seen on Twitter that if this

was a paraphilia yeah they say the paraphilias don’t ever go away maybe you can suppress them but they’re always still there so what is your sense of this paraphilia that you did have is it completely gone yes so again this is a first psychologists as sexologists is very interesting because can sexual orientation change can you have a paraphilia and then not have one is that possible I saw I think it was dr. Blanche art right on Twitter a paraphilia is a sexual orientation that we don’t like which i think is interesting and it does seem that people who have certain certain paraphilias never overcome them will grow out of them it’s as if they are part of them in some way but I think maybe I am a slightly different case because all of this only started happening in adolescence and normally I believe correct me if I’m wrong but normally sexual orientation is fixed around puberty or before puberty yeah that’s controversial only because people it’s revisionist history where people say well when did you know that and people will usually back date it you know too much earlier day but but when I read about paraphilias like certain fetishes like attraction to certain objects for example it’s often related to some experience in childhood with red object that then sort of gods jumped into sexual orientation right yes for me none of this happened until I was 19 so right I think that my my let’s say heterosexual or bisexual but mostly heterosexual non paraphilic orientation was already so settled right by that time that’s whatever happened after that wasn’t strong enough to influence my sexual orientation anymore that’s what I would I’m not saying that it’s the case but that’s what I would major is the case it’s gonna sound a bit like a strange question maybe but if you could break it down I think I know I’m hearing but – how much was a sexual drive how much was a social Drive – this that is something that I myself have been wondering for for the longest time and I still don’t know but I would say I am one of the things I’ve been thinking a lot recently was that a lot of this auto giant affiliate stuff and gender dysphoria stuff was a result of being lonely really mm-hmm because I was so lonely and this is not uncommon actually you see it when there’s there subreddits where trans people describe these things themselves they say well I wanted a girlfriend so bad but I couldn’t find one so I became the girlfriend and I believe that’s part of at least part of the mechanism that was going on because of my experiences I would say that your sexuality can be influenced by things that happen in your lives most things in life are nature / nurture yeah right but you can become attracted to things that you weren’t attracted to before over the course of your lifetime that’s what I would say mm-hmm one of the things that I think upset people when I talked about you was that they were saying how is this rapid onset but it’s not wrap you’re nothing it was rapid onset trans feelings it was rapid onset gender dysphoria yes through social contagion is there a difference again here’s we’re getting into you know semantics I would say that if somebody let’s say felt and I’ve never felt Transpo know if they felt trans but they never felt bad about it there was never any dysphoria around that you know just thought they knew that they were gender not perform again now we’re switching into no longer trans with gender nonconforming can come up with five different ways to say yes and five different ways I know the reason I call it rapid onset is because it was never a thing until I was 19 and then suddenly it was like within a space of a few months I went from identifying fully as male to having this female identity and it so came at me really rapidly so much that I was overwhelmed by it I’d call it pretty rapid onset and then the haters are gonna say well but what you’re describing was before this time you already had the precursors it was already starting and you just hadn’t felt comfortable enough and it wasn’t till you found the safe online community that embraced you that allowed you to feel that I mean that’s what they’re going to say well but if that were the case then why would I never have been conscious of these feelings so I assert that it didn’t exist at all but if it existed before then and it was subconscious or unconscious right which is very possible but then what actually was it that’s the big question yeah and also if that actually if that’s how it works if the precursors do developing a transgender identity actually exists in childhood already before you become aware of them then who is to say that that’s not the same thing that’s happening in all these current cases of rapid onset gender dysphoria right and that’s what the opponents of rapid onset

gender dysphoria would argue they would say it wasn’t rapid it wasn’t sudden they always were you know struggling with it but denied that rapid onset gender dysphoria exists at all well is that the thing that’s where they’re talking out of both sides of their mouth okay okay but it seems completely theoretical this discussion it would be much more it would be much preferable to actually investigate it and see if that’s actually what’s going on or not yes and unfortunately it’s hard to get with the word University aking yes right and so we have because it’s like politically correct so we have people like Misa Littman and one other person eyes she will publish her findings soon I was at a talk last month okay where she presented her data it was very similar to what Lisa Lippmann found but it’s you know coming from parents not from the kids which is always a concern but how do you get a child I mean the only way to do it is to speak with people like you who years later I have come to terms with what you were going through you can’t ask the kids at the time because actually because of the social contagion that’s really hard because when you’re in the middle of it then everybody is telling you that yes this is how it works you were always transfer just didn’t find out until now right then of course that’s what you’re gonna say right and I’m curious in your experience but that was almost 10 years ago yeah were they pushing back then for you to isolate yourself from your parents from your community oh yes you constantly heard my parents don’t understand me there so transphobic and you know I gotta get out of here because I’m never gonna be happy this way and they will never accept me and I internalized that narrative and that actually led to a bit of a rift between me and my mother and like I am we already haven’t been talking much throughout my adolescence because I was very shielded very closed to the outside world but our relationship deteriorated after that and then as my transition went on and I started transitioning socially with some success she actually came around and accepted that I was doing this and then our relationship improved but now that I am coming out of the whole thing and talking to her about that I finally come to realize that she was never transphobic at all or unaccepting she just wanted the best for me all along right and the best for me was to find peace with my sexed body which I now have so yeah right and that’s again having spoken with so many parents I’m sure some of the parents I’ve spoken with are transphobic homophobic and if you’re not of course but so many of them the vast majority that I believe I’ve spoken with are like your mother she just wants what’s best for her child and if that what’s best can avoid radical surgery to remove mmm taking in hormones and etc that’s not transphobic it’s not hateful it’s being a good parent and how did we get to this place in the world where you know everything I just said is the opposite well I told you right you had that mother on your channel a few months ago and she reminded me of my own mother because she just wants the best for her child and she’s being followed by all sites that no you can’t do that it’s transphobic you’re mean it’s bad for your child and that just infuriates me so much because it seemed there’s this whole group of people who have a vested interest in not doing what’s best for the child and you know again some people watch these videos know this already but for someone who’s seen this for the first time I want to stress I do believe in Blanchard’s taxonomy I do believe that there may be some people who don’t fit neatly into those you know why wouldn’t there be but if we take this taxonomy there are at least two major types of a transperson or two pathways through which someone feels trans yeah the way that you were describing the auto beneful ik and then the homosexual transsexual and as dr. Blanchard and dr Bailey both described these are two very different almost species it’s almost like treating diabetes one and diabetes 2 the same people don’t understand that most of the people who are fighting to have young children to be accepted into transition– are not that type they did not experience that they claimed they did but they are the auto gyno philic and the children who are very young who are either either the gender nonconforming only and they should never think of transitioning or they are quote unquote homosexual transsexuals who are extremely different from the auto guider philic transsexual so people don’t understand that the strongest advocates for these kids are not the same and so they are working out their own issues through these children mmm ok so on the 2 type theory and I I agree with it broadly right III my issue with it is that I believe is not accurate enough and that there’s people who have traits of both of they’re certainly

the sides and also I was very pleased to read that dr. Blanchard I believe is now treating our OGD as a sort of third type a new thing that’s come into existence and I believe that it would be good to specify it more and but broadly generally I agree that it seems pretty obvious that if the cases fall into these two broad categories right and and I agree with you that two things that are not the same we’re now being conflated as if they were one in the same thing and they’re not right people don’t know that and that’s it if you’re if you’re going to be politically correct if you’re gonna be I hate to use these terms as people hate them but you know virtue signaling and so on at least know what you’re doing know who the players are try to question their motives and most importantly the number one issue what is in the best interests of the people whether it’s the children teens adults one thing I noticed when engaging with this whole discourse and which I also mentioned in my writings is that it’s very hard for people to talk about these things because they get emotional over it think it’s as if they can’t see clearly because they take things personally and they get upset and it would be much better to talk as factually as possible about what’s actually going on even if those facts are things that you don’t like or that make you uncomfortable but that requires distancing yourself from it emotionally and a lot of people seem to be unable to do that and that’s funny because in my classes I do this on Twitter as well and every time I do it I always get the same predictable reaction and I could change it knowing that it’s gonna cause this reaction but it’s actually proving my point which is in my class I teach my students more than anything well first of all I teach them to be critical thinkers yeah but I teach them to be able to tolerate that very discomfort you’re describing so you don’t take it overly personally even if it is a very personal subject you need to be able to step back and attach yourself and the example that I use and this is what always says people off if they give some belief or rule or whatever else I say okay are you willing to apply that to pedophilia and people go are you comparing trans people to pedophiles are you say no I didn’t say that I mean I’ve been trying to subtly say that I’m saying if you’re gonna apply a certain belief or rule or principle then it’s got to apply to all different situations and people hate that but that just shows just and rightfully so I mean when people hear pedophilia or they think of child sex events and of course it causes a visceral reaction but we need to overcome that we need to overcome that because otherwise you cannot look at these things and study them logically exactly it becomes ideologically driven which unfortunately is exactly what has happened I am always calling out for more of my colleague please do the research talk to people on both sides see what sounds most credible when we talked about these things elections think both sides all sides and many times and they’re afraid to do it some because they just they haven’t put that much thought into it and so they’re just going with what they think is the norm the DSM or W path or the icd-10 but the others are afraid of the backlash and that’s why I’m smiling so just a few days ago suddenly I think here like five or six or seven people I’m pretty sure they’re all trans people you know going out to my facebook professional page saying he’s this he’s that oh yeah right and I just I think it’s hilarious because uh but I can understand if I were just starting out yeah I didn’t have a practice and I didn’t have hours and hours of videos and lectures and literally you know thousands of people who could say that’s not dr. Amity what you’re describing I might be in a different position if I didn’t have this you know what I consider to be solid enough evidence of what my motives are but others professionals are being bullied and I hate that word because it’s used inappropriately I think in this case it is bullying it’s modeling it is it’s it’s reprehensible so I’m just wondering for you as an individual person yeah I don’t know this part I want to ask you I don’t know how much this extends into your personal non Twitter life okay I don’t know what you’re doing beyond and yeah I know you gave me some writing to look at yeah but I’m not sure what you’re doing and how much this stance that you’re taking is affecting you so on the one hand professionally I’m relatively fortunate that I’m not a psychologist or a sexologist I’m a linguist and it does touch upon this a little bit with the the whole pronoun stuff that Jordan Peterson was embroiled in that’s a big controversy nowadays but mostly I’m able to avoid this discourse but on the other hand on a more personal level like I said I had a large part of my social circle was write queer and trans communities and I feel that almost the the things that I’m saying them which I’m only saying because they’re my personal experience right and I feel that I can I need to be honest about these things and I need to do get the word out so that other people might be

able to relate to me but I feel that saying these things is almost considered a heresy or a blasphemy or something like that because you’re not allowed to say these things and I feel that I’m almost persona non grata I’ve been accused of being assist straights mail and so on are they saying that you are an agent I feel all right I felt homophobic racists transphobic oh it’s nonsense yeah and again I can only smile because otherwise it would just it’d be distressing yeah just think about this and that’s the only defense that we have against is to smile and say piss off when you realize it’s all nonsense then one develops a thick skin right right and you can smile and I’m happy that there’s so many people nowadays like yourself like Jordan Peterson like Deborah so Lisa no and also on other issues than the trans issues there’s there’s a sort of movement of people who say hey listen we can’t let political correctness or whatever stand in a way of proper investigation of the issues and I’m very happy to you know lend my voice and support those people again this is where I think such a perversion of language we are these kids these vulnerable kids adolescents teens even young adults yeah all they’re doing is look for support because I can’t stress this enough I don’t see this as necessarily I mean it is partly gender identity I see it as personal identity people are looking you know and that’s at the core of who we are what is it who knows I spend many hours a day working with people to try to help them find out what is how do I fit in not in my body but in society and these roles everything it’s all about again finding one’s place in life yes and so here’s this supposed welcoming group of like-minded individuals who are supports and I can’t stress the stuff I know sounds like hyperbole but I don’t believe it is when I hear the stories of people who are going through what you described it sounds exactly or almost exactly like a cult because the first rule of cults is you isolate people from their other supports and this happens the only difference is that in many cases the kids are not told move out right away but sadly they do end up moving quickly and now they’re encouraged by the school’s they’re encouraged by local community groups or government organizations that give them the funds the resources to help them separate from their family and their traditional supports and now they’re going into this new group who and you found this out this is the scariest part for me is as soon as you take the wrong step in the wrong direction that support disappears instantaneously and then it’s actually turned against you well it’s bloody insidious isn’t it there’s this whole community of people who purport to help you and to make your life better and then in doing so they actually end up separating you from your parents separating you from society and your life doesn’t become better at all it becomes worse and when you leave or when you say I’m not doing this anymore or I even I disagree right disagree with the way you see the world they turn you into a bad guy and you lose all that support immediately which is why there’s such strong deterrent to desisting because you lose so oh yeah there must be people who are afraid to resist on variety of reasons of one of the simplest ones is when you’ve invested so much of your time and energy in yourself saying no no you guys you all have a wrong this is who I am well and this is this is what I also struggled with as I was going through this whole coming to realize that the way I was living my life was no longer measurable with how I thought about the world and these things like gender and so on right I knew that the logical conclusion would be to desist for transition but because my because it was so deeply involved in it and because the transition had been such a big part of my life that worked as a deterrent right and and it made me very afraid and that’s actually where my girlfriend helped me a lot because she had gone through not quite the same but a similar thing and she was encouraging me a lot and Jordan Peterson’s work helped me also a lot because here was somebody who was openly saying that look we need to change the way that we talk about these things and there’s millions of people following him so the guy must be saying something right so those influences gave me the strength to say you know what I’m not a bad person for doing this I’m not suddenly transphobic or you know patriarchal or any of that nonsense I’m still the same person but I need to do this for my own sake because it’s gonna be healthier and better for me in the long run right and so I’m curious then it’s currently what role does feminism and yes it all depends on how you define feminism

alaskey but what role does feminism play in your life moving forward okay so previously I would have defined myself as a feminist and now I no longer do okay what’s the main reason the main reason is things like equal rights for women and men and women’s right to vote and women’s rights to do do anything that a man can do I’m in favor of all those things right but in in our Western society we have already achieved all of those things and yes there is still inequality but it seems that the feminist movement nowadays has become let’s say this fourth way for what they call it intersectional feminism is focusing on a lot of issues that aren’t really or shouldn’t really be issues well you know in Saudi Arabia women only recently got the right to drive right I think if that’s feminism then I then I support feminism but the feminism they’re doing over here it seems like it’s barely feminism at all because how is it helping women in any way I think it’s not psychologically healthy for women or men and you also see that in the countries where women have the most rights the disparity between what men doing with women do actually gets larger instead of smaller and yeah that’s the dr. Peterson Desmond exactly yes and and and the statistics bear that out right and so I don’t support this just this modern brand of feminism because I prefer to have my thinking led by what’s actually happening rather than by ideology right so you’re yet another person who and again I think it’s so important for people to understand you are someone who was pushed out of a search and let’s say belief systems which originally some people disagree with it I I want to have a positive view but originally had good intentions yes did some good some important things of essential things yet now it’s gone you know off the rails and people would still despite what you just described everything that you just said all people are gonna hear is anti-woman misanthrope misogynist everything because they don’t want to believe that somebody could you know fall off the path because the path has become corrupted it’s become distorted into something like who the hell knows what it is Miley innopolis I’ve never been a fan I’m sorry his more recent interviews last year I kind of understood what he was doing if that’s truly what he was doing fine I’ll grant on that I’m not sure but the one thing that he kept saying over and over and over more than anyone else was he would always reiterate the stat that if you ask it was like British American they had a company and I think Australian women if you ask them what percentage agree and equal rights for men and women or equality for men and women I should say you know I was like see awesome 90 something percent but if you ask what percent call themselves feminists and these are among women it’s like 7 percent 10 percent 17 percent right so I think it’s so important for people to recognize that it’s not that people are turning away from feminism they’re turning away from what that has because I still say this just to piss people off because I still believe it I still call myself a male feminist a despite that the how feminism has become just bastardized and distorted and be more importantly despite the image that we have of male feminists now if you say you’re a male feminist you’re a creep you’re a beta male you’re all these things so I’ll say it yeah I’ll call myself a male feminist just to piss people off right okay all right but the point is this a lot of these male feminists who rightfully are denigrated yeah their motives are not pure whatever they became male feminists usually later in life because you know they realize they couldn’t make it as you know whatever yes you from a young age you’re saying a relatively young age were a feminist because you saw I think there was some truth to what you were like you were seeing this inequality or disparities or unfairness and so on right like you believed in it originally because it was a like it was a pure belief system if I can if I don’t put words in your mouth nobody in their right mind wants to be sexist nobody wants to be racist nobody wants to be misogynist or homophobic any of these things so what do you do when you’re a good person and you want to be you want to show the world that you are good right well the thing that’s all around you is all of this newfangled feminist ideology things like mansplaining and male supremacy right all the toxic masculine well I do believe in toxic masculinity as a concept that there are some touch of masculinity that are stalks yes again is being blown out of yeah every type of master is out talk right that’s where we’re headed now and I think that’s wrong and but so yeah also what happened was said when I was 20 I went to college and you know linguistics is still a liberal arts oh all right this whole discourse was always there in the background and you

know people around you are saying that you don’t want to you don’t want to fall out of tune with them and you you want to you could call it virtue signal but but in a sort of naive well-intentioned way right eventually it comes to the point where you are in inside the the also to speak and out of fear of the fallout or of not being politically correct you you you don’t dare to to think any further anymore you don’t dare to consider alternatives for the the things you’ve been fed because my mother I say fed because a lot of college students accept these things that you hear from their professors and from the anthem they accepted uncritically right which is the opposite of what we should be doing in colleges and universities we should think critically yeah and every professor says they do and I always tell my students nice good challenge their pet theory and see how crazy thing they know it’s ridiculous and again the important thing is you said if you want to be a good person which most people want to be yeah and someone says to you here’s the path toward being a good person right right especially because they say look at what the bad people are they are Nazis they are this they’re that right who if you’re given the choice who wouldn’t take that path that’s what I’m saying right exactly I feel a lot of people out of fear of being seen as a bad person right are afraid to speak out yep and I’ve got videos that down alka on the link saw that that talked about how people have used language too as a linguist TV should appreciate that right people who use this language and is this it’s a psychology of language that they view oh yeah I feel you know as a linguist I I’ve thought about this a lot and I’ve come to the conclusion that a large part of the problem is that people just is in a way that people speak of things it’s the words they use and everybody uses one and the same word to mean different things right and there’s a lot of misunderstandings and talking past each other and the semantics of its are really a big part of the the confusion in the hostility right and one of the things I think one of the greatest things I ever read or one of the most informative things I’ve ever read very simple but to me was profound I’m pretty sure was George Orwell who wrote it but he may not have been the first yeah whereas we assume that thinking influences language language sure as hell influences thinking the way language is constructed the way words are phrase the way definitions are ascribed will change the way that we think about things and well that’s a that’s a big currents it has been current for at least 30 years in linguistics but it’s still current and that’s a big field of investigation which I am also interested in so that’s what I will be looking at next year in my Master’s this is why I make these videos this is why I I lecture this way because you use the word earlier it’s insidious well that insidious description applies to many of these things oh yeah once again because it’s being masked in this facade of virtue do good do good yeah and again who wouldn’t want to do good right right and that’s where the language comes in yes and and I know people hate the term again I’ll say it again the virtue signaling because what good person does not want to be seen as virtue right but this is lazy it’s lazy on so many levels and it’s corrupt yes and again I think that you’re a great example of somebody who from a young age I mean I’m the same way but I can talk to myself all the time but you’re someone who has gone through this progression I’m going to call it and different from I mean I went to my progression as well but you took a very different path that I’ve taken you’ve lived it and you’ve seen what’s happened firsthand definitely right and you know and I hope people will pay heed to your words to understand what can happen if it’s just one piece without a place for you who knows where you would have gone and I’m very happy for me that things ended up going the way they went but yeah that’s why I’m here to tell everybody that this is what can happen when the way you think about the world and the way you you see yourself in the world is influenced like this right and is the extent of the influence that it can have on you and and some of the stuff I mean I we could spend hours and hours on unpackage all the stuff but we don’t at the time but I do want to say one of the things that I think is the most important and it’s confusing because to this day we still don’t know and again this is where language comes in again you’ve brought up okay there’s you know sexual orientation there’s paraphilias are they the same are they different gender there’s all these different phenomena which we spent in the old days it was all one thing yeah right then we spent all these years trying to unpackage them and try to see a good thing which is a good thing because it’s precision we need to know what we’re talking about and in the doing so now at this point we’ve ignored the fact that there is some overlap among certain factors so we pretend that they’re independent and

certain biological rules apply to one aspect but not the other so I hope if people when they listen to what you’re describing as your experience the sexual attraction the the drive the desire all the things that you went through I hope people really slow down listen to it and try to kind of you know understand it from these different levels how much of it was social how much was maybe biological how much was sexual how much was validation acceptance the only look language is a model and you need to make sure that your model matches reality as opposed ly as possible you need to have language being aid in your thinking instead of an impediment nowadays it’s often an impediment you’ve got to be careful not to make things come into being that don’t actually exist just because of the way you talk right right well I hope people can unpackage that when they hear your story yeah for me I can talk about my past you know raising a sex store I can talk about my clinical work I can talk about theories etc yeah that’s different than for you and I do really appreciate this putting yourself out here talking honestly openly forthrightly about complex potentially embarrassing issues and definitely issues that are gonna get you a hell of a lot of negative feedback from all sides only issues there are people that I know if they would see this they would get angry at me yet I do it anyway because I feel that it’s the best thing to do and that’s what I appreciate so much easier putting yourself out there I really do appreciate that and it’s nice to have a sex positive discussion yeah in a mature rational discussion about things that I know I don’t know if you were gonna watch this and I don’t know how what percentage are gonna get creeped out by some of the stuff that we sent but the more that we can have honest discussion I would love if people saw this video and it turned into a discussion and I’d love to also engage in Judah’s discussion so that we could all come to a better understanding of these things right that’s what it’s really all about it really is and you’re one person discussing your one experience for your two if you include your girlfriend and we can just expand on this we can grow from it and instead of shutting down your voice because I don’t know what you’re staying or I don’t agree with this or it offends me it’s like the hell’s wrong with you and that’s why I like your work so much because you give a voice to all these people that would get shut down in other place and that’s exactly so and I always appreciate what someone comes on and it takes the risk that that you’re doing so your name will be on Twitter’s and the descriptions yes thank you very much for for coming it’s because you’re very welcome thank you pleasure my pleasure too