Aquaponics in Paradise Forum and How it Advances the Sciences with Albert Fung

hey we’re back we’re live for the four to five block on Monday Labor Day and Albert Albert Fung is with me and he believes in Labor Day as much as I do but we both decided to come down here and do this right Albert yes thank you for joining Saturday so he runs a thing called aquaponics in paradise we want to find out about that we want to find out how he got from being enough an IT professional to an aquaponics professional so tell us tell us your background Albert and uh and what you know what what led you from the one to the other hmm well I’ve always been a jack-of-all-trades I mean I’ve had a a my own business doing computer repair which expanded into a gaming internet cafe up the street from here and by God to aquaponics because I read about it and the Houma weekly and it sounded amazing we can grow fish and plants in your backyard and you know save a little money on your grocery bill that is just really really a neat way to grow things I think let’s explore that for a minute because I have the same feeling about aquaponics it’s amazing but it you know it draws you and I mean I come from the same kind of thinking that you know information technology kind of thinking computer programming thinking something about aquaponics that’s similar isn’t it it’s you you get to control how nature works you get to change the variables and thus the outcome it’s it’s kind of like programming something isn’t it definitely it does attract a lot of IT professionals for some reason there’s a wide variety of people who get into aquaponics but for some reason there’s a lot of computer guys getting into it I guess just a matter of like you said controlling the system it’s also a matter of self-reliance you know about being able to you know have your own universe essentially and being self-reliant by other’s business that thread runs through at least for me anyway so I can imagine the connection between the one and the other a little bit it’s it’s really interesting and it’s basically two different fields put together the OP culture and hydroponics so there’s a little bit of a learning curve I’m sorry do you have a system running no no but I’ve been talking to people right here at this table about these systems yes I see now you know chose one more question about the ID background and that is are you using your IT background in running aquaponics and paradise yes I am I after I learned of aquaponics I googled it and read everything I could about it and back in 2009 there was nobody really doing it of doing a website about aquaponics and sharing information most of it was happening in Australia in fact there’s three major websites and everything is in a metric there so you need to convert everything over so I started the forums and the forums is the biggest Quanah forums in the state with over 1,900 members this is aquaponics in paradise that’s their name com that’s right own ok so I can go on aquaponics in paradise calm right now and have a forum international forum on the best practices in aquaponics and that’s right people share pictures of their systems ask questions answer questions and just generally we just generally promote aquaponics throughout the state of the rope you know that’s great I get the feeling Albert that you are you know doing this out of the goodness of your heart to that you’re not necessarily in it for the money that you want to see the world take to aquaponics is there an element of that in your activity a little bit just sharing information for free I think really helps get the word around just being more self sustainable over 90% of our food is imported into Hawaii so being able to grow your own especially when there’s something like a hurricane scare is is kind of reassuring and I definitely don’t make a lot of money doing this so it’s really fun passionate project for me ok well we want to talk about the Hurricanes too but let’s let’s just get the four corners of what you

are doing so you have an aquaponics facility right now yes describe it for us well let’s see I have four different aquaponic systems around my house there are several thousand gallons each I’m sorry there’s there’s several 1000 gallon systems and I’m growing a variety of produce ain’t even the standard stuff leafy greens on choy Basel tomatoes the decoy chayote squash cucumbers the list really goes on well that’s interesting because usually for aquaponics farmers the list isn’t that long oh there’s absolutely a lot more but one’s a lot more possibilities yeah but usually you know you specialize in just a few right you have a longer list than just a few yeah there’s a different lab where you can grow very depends on the size of your system the the people go to my website are mostly back yarders so they have small systems usually about 200 gallons or so and some of them are really tiny you know they’re in apartments but they’re still able to do aquaponics on their balcony or or lanai are you are you saying that I have to frame this question are you saying that you could put a system on your balcony or lanai that would that would sustain you and then keep you alive unfortunately it’s not that productive but it you could grow a variety of herbs and that will cut down on your grocery bill but you wouldn’t be self-sustaining with a small fifty gallon system not really no now how big having a system do you need to be self-sustaining generally you need about a 200 gallon system for about a family of four but that’s that’s where the learning curve comes in a lot of people who get into this may have experience with fish tanks or growing something in their backyard sometimes both it or neither so learning how to grow plants is additional difficulty so it really comes down to it I guess yeah how good your green thumb is yeah what do you mean by a green thumb because my wife and I talk about this all the time and I know I don’t have one but what do you mean by a green thumb well some people just have the ability to grow plants very easily I guess and that’s anger guard is having a green thumb well some people can’t grow from seed very well so it takes some practice and some learning on how to germinate and grow seeds now you had to be an expert in this how how did you expert yourself from an IT professional to an aqua professional well I read everything that I could on the internet there’s several other American sites since aquaponics in Paris calm was established and just near working with the backyards and also some of the professionals who are doing this now back in January you had a show with Maris Gardens future so I’ve been working with them one of the things that my forum does or I try to do with my forums is use our group buying power to work with the vendors and get a discount on things centers of what vendors of aquaponic and hydroponic supplies also we do tours of different aquaponic farms and facilities around the state so what kind of fish are you growing what kind of fish are you know working for you and Jerry can use any kind of freshwater fish but I’m growing gold coil Apia great Alafia as well as swai which is a vietnamese catfish and chinese catfish I’ve also got some Malaysian prawns that I’m trying to grow out but they’re very difficult mmm but it can be done you know I mean I guess you know that from the farm there was kind of a group experiment but of course you know everything is on the internet so you can google all that and see what people recommend and a hot girl different things so is there a market for all that here can you go down and Safeway and sell your stuff that’s what I’m still learning I’m more of a backyard than a commercial person backyard remains you grow if you’re wrong you yes I mean there are food regulations and stuff and some markets are have looser regulations but you know nobody wants to buy anything from a permit dodgy vendors so it’s definitely possible there are some people who are doing it properly but they’re doing it in their backyard we did one field trip to this guy in Hawaii Kai he’s got two twenty two thousand gallon pawns in his backyard that he made good

yep each of them 20 by 3 5 6 feet deep and it’s all regulated and everything and he’s producing 200 pounds of tilapia every month and selling it live for about six dollars six to seven dollars wholesale each per pound sorry how many pounds is you producing again about 300 okay and he’s expanding well that’s pretty good for you know it’s a full-time job for him I think it’s more of a hobby but it’s expanding to a real farmland so so he sees a value in it and especially in a place in Hawaii where a tilapia is not highly regarded even though worldwide it’s like a number for farm fish in the world mm-hmm let’s take a short break and that’s Albert farm he runs aquaponics in paradise where’s your location in general I’m another I’m located in the water off the Tremont oh okay this is think TECA ye we’re talking about Agrotech in Hawaii we talk about a coupon Apple products and paradise would be right back after this short break I’m home to young hosts for Asia in review on Tuesdays and I’m David a host for Asian review on Thursdays both of us broadcast our respective shows at 4:00 p.m. and my topics tend to deal with questions related to the environment culture history and sometimes human rights and my shows tend to be on international business foreign policy geopolitics and national security and you can watch our shows live on the think tech website at think tech kawaii calm and you can also watch us on YouTube a la la so come join us on Thursdays at 4 p.m I’m David day and on Tuesdays at 4 p.m I’m Hong Joo young Aloha Aloha ok we’re back we’re live we’re here with Albert Fong who is an aqua aqua ponics person running aquaponics in paradise and we’re talking to him here on think tech talks Tech in Hawaii talking about aquaponics in Paradise so you know one thing you know it strikes me that with your you know IT background and your sort of perception of the marketplace and your understanding of aquaponics and the community of people involved in it you would be an ideal person to create a distribution system and network where you know co-op if you will where you could sell through this organization that you build sell into commercial buyers right are you doing now you’re thinking about that well that’s how I think we got introduced via fieles that’s wushu of the Department of Agriculture yeah and I’ve been last year I was working with a lot of aquaponic farmers and I approached a farmers trying to create a cooperative to share our buying power the budget selling power that also a selling power there’s a lot of different ways that we can go over right now we’re calling a lot of red tape so hopefully we’ll work regulations regulations and limitations permits that kind of thing all that funding grants and of course there’s a budget crunch right now so grants are a little more rare where would you look where would an aquaponics farmer look for grants I use Google I’m not sure where real shock upon a farmers going to look for anything you USDA dot-gov has a few grants there’s there’s a lot of them out there still and unfortunately we just missed one that we’re perfect for the for the CSA that we’re trying to push right now csa standing for Community Supported aquaponics well traditionally it stands for Community Supported Agriculture and most of the farms have a sort of CSA AO of some kind and if you don’t aren’t re familiar with it a CSA is a way for farmers to sell their produce directly to the consumers and assumer is to support the local farmers through a website through electronic Clearinghouse is that what it is generally yes but a lot some of the farms that aren’t us are still a little tacker so they’re they’re doing farmers markets or ticket sales and stuff like that but it’s a lot more efficient going through the website now in the future it’s got to be it’s got to evolve to that don’t you think so so the question is where are you in that evolution know you are you the only player in town that’s actually trying to set up a distribution a co-op system to both buy and sell buy equipment and you know whenever it is accessories and supplies and then sell actually sell

even backyard aquaponics products into the commercial chain as far as I know we’re the only one the coop that’s trying to be become established and there’s about six or seven farms that are participating and its really interesting from my point of view to put it all together and see them talk because these are competitors they’re trying to sell fish against each other interesting pyramid isn’t it it is we’ve had at the beginning we had a few dinner meetings and was nice seeing people talk and you know not fight about business basically so working together we can accomplish a lot more but you said in the beginning this has changed on the beginning there was more just feeling out how everybody felt about it what they wanted out of it and from there we’ve been trying to establish it but unfortunately like I mentioned we had some red tape so hopefully we’ll clear that this year and about attitude among the members I mean are they still interested willing you know willing to sort of submit to a group effort or do they want to play it alone there are a few people who we talked to and it did not want to cooperate and they won’t want to do that their own self and that’s fine but that’s probably the one person one a company that did not want to be part of the co-operative otherwise every offices is still interested and realize that we could sell a lot more even the biggest aquaponic farm in the state still can meet some of the orders like we talked about some of the bigger hotels around and of course the thing that was saying to them is you need stability so a single farm by itself might not be able to meet the sales quota every week provide so a coop but so that’s where I’m hoping where we’re going to continue and see well I think you’re absolutely right about that I mean I in my discussions with people who are ridden aquaponics and both sides but the buyers and selling them it’s clear that we’re a small market and the hotels and restaurants you know you’ve got to have a sense of reliability I mean they got to believe confidence in whoever they talk to whoever it is that when they order X units they get X units on time and of a standard of quality and if they can’t do that then they’re all you know the they’re down on aquaponics so through a co-op you could achieve that you can go to the biggest farm and the littlest farm and all the farms in the middle and have the resilience and supply where you could always provide what that what that restaurant or hotel is asking yes you can always meet the order that’s the magic of it and then you can act like you know it’s a big-city operation instead of a little operation but you know the the problem is and I want to know more about the red tape what what hangs you up in general you’re not the name name it’s just gonna be the idea right now is this the the gallery of getting everything put together we’re trying to do a feasibility study I guess that’s the next step and that’s where we’re kind of bound right now for whom somebody wants a feasibility study I think in general yeah any business you would need to do a feasibility study or market research and a buyer a buyer wants this or is it your business that wants to do it no we’re using a consultant a guy a person who does put together our company that desperately there are a lot of cooperatives and and stuff like that so they a lot of experience with this so to answer your question I’m not sure who requires it but it does make sense to have it to make sure that there’s a demand that your business will thrive so right okay that’s fair enough so what about other red tape kind of what are you wasn’t what are kind of permits and approvals and what have you do you need to get in are you are you able to get them I think we’ll be we’ll be able to there’s already a lot of other coops here and worldwide so we’re not exactly forging new ground here it’s just getting it all up and running I guess mm-hmm timeframe the first I don’t have one but I can hit it up as soon as possible yeah well I mean you know you could make some money in this effort we that’ll be great think of the fish market in general that’s a big that’s a big operation and there’s a lot of fish there’s a lot of money passing hands

it’s got to be you know a lot of money for handling the fish that go through the process and if for example a co-op could handle a lot of fish and a lot of money would pass hands the people who run the coop well the carp itself I suppose theoretically would make some some money people work for the car it’s a business matter what you have here yes it’s you got to get it off the ground definitely yeah okay so you said there were others though they bigger as smaller than you are or they are are they to save a circumstance the examples that I’m thinking of are already established there’s a cattle co-op that I met with discuss how they put together their coop it was very interesting to learn how how cattle is raised and shipped out and how the coop works and like that so there’s other different costs but not specifically one for aquaponics yeah the idea but a co-op is a co-op yeah in the in the meantime though we’re working with one farm and putting out it that’s CSA so so how does the how does the CSA work I mean I’m looking at this business card and this is a website community supported aquaponics calm and that’s different from your aquaponics in paradise that’s aquaponics in paradise is yours yes this is this community supported aquaponics is is the the coop yeah in a way it came from the coop and hopefully will expand as we get bigger involved the other farms and that might be the way that the coop actually comes to existence rather than doing all the background research like market studies and feasibility and stuff like that but actually just going out there can hear your hands dirty and selling the product for the farmers and that’s what it does the CSA the community support aquaponics it’s a market so electronic market for the sale of aquaponics project basically it takes the and you don’t have to put it in a central distribution warehouse or refrigerated area like that you would have the producer delivered directly is that right well we have different ways of doing it right now people can pick it up at the farm right now it the farms in Mililani so the buyer would pick it up at the farm if they’re in that area where we also have a pickup location in Kapiolani and then I deliver in the normal area for a for a small fee but that’s just the convenience of it and the packages are sold in weekly or bi-weekly bi-weekly as in every other week so how you you have a 1500 mm actually 1909 yeah since we spoken where since I spoke to loose shoe yeah hey you’re growing like Topsy yeah well but how many members ever you know are there potentially for you it strikes me that there are a lot of people who have aquaponic facilities who might be you might have you’ll be maybe its marginal for some of them but they might have extra product and maybe they could use you know this this process this co-op process so do you have any sense of how many there would be if you if you added everybody that that was a potentially a member mmm I think I’m hearing two different questions they’re potential members as people that we haven’t reached yet right there’s the existing members who are various sizes and most of them are producing enough for themselves a few are producing extra which they’re they’re selling but those are the ones with the larger systems and more time to devote to it and I do have a discussion in the forums regarding that that eventually we would like to buy from them for the backyard or for people to make extra money but they would still need to be some mmm something protocol is a food handling to make sure that everything is how I’ll save all of you control yes yeah that’s a problem if you had say another 1900 out there they’re all small operators and somebody has to go and look and see whether it’s done right whether it’s safe all that this is that’s a burden and if if you’re running a co-op and it falls on you that’s a substantial burden I suppose you have to ask the lawyer about that but I believe that the liability would pass through to the grower if you keep track of the lot numbers and everything no but I mean as the coop you want to you want to sell quality merchandise so in order to achieve that you have to go out and talk to you know show Tanaka who is running this in his back yard and take a look at his system you know and make sure that he’s doing it by the right protocol right so who would do that would make that trip that’s what we’re

still working on but so as far as a co-op goes right now working with the commercial farms we’ll eventually I like to include the backyard errs but but there is that yeah I see the commercial farms are already qualified yes then you don’t have to worry about it as much so you know do you see this as aquaponics as more in line with the future sustainability of the state and say open ocean aquaculture other kinds of you know for example hydroponics growing plants and other high-tech things it’s just the lead the leading possibility for you and is it the exclusive possibility sunset you think it will survive and be the prevailing system going forward or will it join other systems and which ones it’s a little hard to say aquaponics is relatively new even though technology dates back to Chinese rice paddies or Hawaiian lilies and stuff like that but I think all of them work working together will help us become more self sustainable the thing about hydroponics is that it’s a very known well known science and know exactly how a head of lettuce what nutrients to use how much and everything already I think about aquaponics is that it’s a little newer and don’t have all the rules set yet so I think my website and other websites help figure these things out for people because we cannot use those nutrients that they use in hydroponics everything has to be pretty much organic because you’re growing vegetables using the fish waste so if you add nutrients and you might potentially kill the fish but isn’t y’all just going to ask you this I mean so if I open the manual whatever ever that manual maybe online or whatever and it says well here’s what you do you take a 300 gallon tank and you put this hose and then you get this kind of lettuce and you put it over there and you get this kind of fish you put it over there and every day you feed the fish and I don’t know you put the water from the fish onto the lettuce and it’ll be fine I mean isn’t there a place where it describes the exact recipes for making this work what are the untested aspects of it can I just follow the cookbook yes in general you can but there’s a lot of other factors that you have to consider if you’re growing lettuce in waianae then it probably won’t work this is very hot and this is survive in the heat environmental factors basically tomatoes and and so on you don’t need more heat so that would be better in waianae depends on the size of your system I mean fish you have a lot of these other variables are kind of on a on a sliding scale so in general that’s a pretty good assessment of how the aquaponic system works but there’s a little more to it just where can I find out about the latest and greatest observations and experiments and you know the gloss on the basic rules that will help me deal with you know too much temperature and wine i whatever it is different kind of environments somewhere else where where are those last you know the most recent lessons that I need to learn we’re going to I find them on your side yes you can find in the forums people are asking all those questions that you asked actually anything from beginners to experts are are on there and I’m going to help out that’s great we’ll take another break this is Albert fun he runs equip onyx in paradise in Ljubljana actually this is think tech Hawaii we’re talking about Agrotech in Hawaii we’re talking about his company and his coop today we’ll be right back after this break Aloha hello my name is Hong ji young and I host think Tech Asia every Tuesday afternoon at 4 p.m. at our show we talk about issues that are important in Asia such as the environment culture history religion we broadcast live and we’re also on a low 54 make sure to tune in and we’ll see you there thank you goodbye ok we’re back for live with Albert Fung of aquaponics in paradise we got some pictures to show you we’ll put them on the screen and and Albert can give you a running narrative about what we’re looking at okay ready pictures here’s a picture ok well that’s just the logo for my website and it it’s a describes aquaponics works this is one of the members systems and as we

purposed IBC liquid container this one is in somebody’s basement in Chicago and they’re growing vegetables and fish in their basement using electric lighting this memory system is really interesting this is a NFT system and is growing a lot of lettuce as you can see there that’s the other half of this system those are the girl beds and you can’t see it but there is a 200-gallon tank right below those fake brick potato facade there and this is a variety of different systems that people have built and posted pictures of on my website I don’t know what that is what is that I believe that’s one of Len Martinez’s aquaponic systems and there is a fish tank that’s I think at the top of the picture and it feeds the grow beds are on the bottom right which drain down to the middle and then finally back into the fish tank so a lot of different ways that it can be created so yeah that’s an interesting question well let’s go through some of them what are you seeing here just more of the members systems just a lot of ways that you can build aquaponic systems basically and everybody has their own take on building it yeah that that’s an interesting piece so that you can do what you want however they aren’t all equally efficient or successful most of these are pretty successful so long as the person who builds it you know follow the basic rows occasionally hear of things where people will have skipped some of the rows and they’ll put in a Miracle Grow for the plants kill the fish Oh watch me accountants okay I think we finished the pictures day okay whoops there’s more there’s these are the CSA packages that we have every week I take a picture and post them online so that potential members can see what what they get for their money basically and these are some of the small products that I sell for people who don’t want to build their own or they aren’t candy or have tools so I build small kids and systems for people to purchase and put together or okay as you put together larger systems for people mm-hmm these are all different kinds of systems that we’re seeing here that’s right well so I okay this is that’s a new element for me anyway that you actually sell some of the supplies and equipment to build these things yeah a couple years after I started the forums I added a front-end to the website for consulting but still it’s a pretty small small business a lot of people are still learning about aquaponics and it’s definitely growing there’s a section in the forums about aquaponics in the news so a lot of schools and a lot of facilities are doing it now for either to teach kids or as therapy as therapy yes interesting how does that work as therapy I mean with the plants and the fish I suppose a few years ago let’s see coño a hospital I think it’s called set up an aquaponic system for for patients to garden and it’s very peaceful I think yeah what gardening is therapeutic leisure and you also consult you you not only will put them in touch with the equipment they need and I suppose the design but you’ll actually go out there and talk to them about how to how to build that system and maintain it I suppose I will go out and build systems for people but it really depends on I guess the level of requirement that they need to be in terms of size or or the kind of fish are the kind of produce they’re growing yeah all those things I take into account the typical be in temperature location that’s the most sunlight that their location gets that kind of sure that’s all variables and you’ve got to adjust things for so you know if I if I if I’m a retired person Albert and I say well I don’t know I want to put call thousand gallons in my backyard it’s a business I mean do I have to get zoning do I have talk to government agencies about this or is it still fall within you know kind of backyard operation um as far as I know you do not need any kind of special license to operate it especially if it’s

just for your own consumption right I guess the amount of detail you’re talking about if you live in a in a town house or something like that but otherwise I would be interesting wouldn’t it I’ve seen people build systems out of their old hot tub that still holds water but you don’t use anymore as a fish tank and then the girl bids to tap off of that so we’re you know where is this going I mean you mentioned earlier and I want to you know just loop back to that for a minute that this is useful in making our society resilient are unsustainable for example in the case of hurricanes how would that work I guess you always always hear that the only person with any you know long term food supply is McDonald’s and the shelves in the end uh you know the large food stores would be empty in no time even before the stores this the storms got here so how would it work how would I be better off if I had an aquaponic system in my backyard well you would have a large water reserve I mean every fish swimming in it but you in a in a crunch you could drink that water or use that you know to to bathe or flush your toilets at the very least but otherwise I mean you have fish that you could eat given that they’re large enough so I wouldn’t go hungry not for a while in your system but now a lot of these systems require electricity so if you requires electricity and the power is out my system is going to fail so how do I prevent that that’s where some exercise comes in you would basically get a large bucket and pour the water on top and to your grow bed several times a day there’s actually a place in u-h where they have electricity and they’re doing that every day and they’re still able to grow plants just by dumping a few 5-gallon buckets of water from their fish tank into the girl–but the water would just trickle back into the fish tank they had to design it that way so would trickle back rather than through a pump and a and a horizontal pipe this would be a pipe to it would be going down into the grow beds and in most systems water is pumped up into the girl bed so the group beds are above the fish tanks general incre so gravity will just drain it back into the fish tanks okay so but I could use solar okay and for that matter I mean really it struck me while you were talking about exercise that you could put a little bicycle out there and you could you could pump it for some time every day and move the water around with the bicycle I believe somebody made something like that or you could make some coconut cups and Gilligan’s Island it I guess that’d be great uh you know a great way to get exercise end and water your plants well where are you going with this Albert you know you have this incipient co-op assembly it’s really going to get traction you have a business where you you’re actually doing yourself and you have a consulting and supply business for your clientele where is it going for you what do you what do you see is your five-year plan well I’m hoping that the coop does does in fact take off and we’re able to assist the farmers and selling their product and get more people eat healthier all Island so just a long there are a number of UPIKE farms on the other islands but for now I guess we’re starting in a wahoo there’s several farms on the Big Island that we definitely expand to so what do you expect to be in five years a bigger co-op how about your own facility expect that to be bigger that’s definitely on the drawing board that’ll be great any publications you can’t play you’re gonna write this up in a book or something I’m working on it but there are a number of books out there already I guess everybody has their own angle and viewpoint should I read a book or should I just talk to you I bet to get my farm started both and you can read the forum’s also yeah how about the forum is a great place to start it is you know because you can read it and ask questions definitely about what you read that’s that’s you know great learning it’s a great way to share information ok one last question however is that as we’re as it’s going on a community level I mean you see it you see the excitement were not excitement as the case may be you see people coming to it you know embracing it maybe even trying to make it bigger maybe even thinking about going commercial you see the industry growing I like your view about you know how well it’s growing and where the industry is going to be in say five years hmm like going fast enough for you it can always go faster nowadays you hear about so many food recalls from

different stores and everything being able to grow your own you know exactly what you put on it who handled it and that kind of stuff so in five years mmm five years I’m hoping that a lot more people will be growing their own food in their backyards and eating healthier yeah what about the agricultural industry the why not what I get is so you have you have diversified agriculture such as it is and frankly you know since the days of well the 70s and on the failure of the plantations people had hopes then for a diversified agriculture it hasn’t really happened that much this is kind of a new hope for diversified agriculture but it seems to be a kind of inconsistency is what I mean is diversified agriculture as agriculture is in competition with aquaponics isn’t it selling to the same markets at least on the produce side where does that end up which one do you think will prevail or will they both just continue on down the road I think like everything else there is going to find their niche each there are some things that aquaponics can’t grow or doesn’t do as well as in the ground so while you could water fruit trees with colonics water which is behind in nitrogen you know you still need terrestrial farms to produce some of the fruits and a few of the vegetables to expose its goal of different kinds of products for each one yeah definitely aquaponics in general though you can grow a lot of things more in a smaller piece of land more efficiently more efficiently I think so that’s where our opponents will take off yeah we’re sitting up now and how about aquaponics fish versus open ocean fish well there’s some debate about that I gave some khalaby to my sister and of course everybody’s watching this no was that tilapia is not that popular in Hawaii it’s associated with other why unfortunately because they’re so Hardy and strong but eight hundred thousand pounds of frozen tilapia are imported from Asia of a year for relatively cheap and that tells me into I guess into the white you can find it at you know a lot of the major chains now restaurants and grocery stores joining frozen maybe filleted sort of tastes are changing here it definitely is tilapia farm tilapia doesn’t really have a strong taste so it when you cook it you can apply a lot of flavor to it and it’s a pretty good fish as far as versus open ocean I think Oakland Ocean will be it’s probably better but you can’t grow up mahi in your backyard right so it’s always gonna be that not yet no well I hope I hope all that comes true Albert I you know I’d like to see who I become sustainable I’d like to see everybody get involved in diversified agriculture that is the rich and the poor everyone you know so that we can be a sustainable Island State and I’m sure that’s what’s on your mind too so over time do you think the state can can be that or will there be resistance you know by the food stores and resistance by the individual buyers who want to do it the way they’ve always done it what I’m seeing in the background is that there’s just different levels of interest there’s definitely a big interest now and growing your own returning back to you know growing your own produce I’ve read that around the 1940s before this big supermarkets came to being everybody grew the vegetables in their yard and since then with industrialization and careers everything taken off we moved away from that so I think more people are moving towards growing their own produce and getting back to the roots eating healthier and it just comes down to your time and interest I think yeah you’re gonna stay in this business yeah I’d love to look at hey ok this Albert fog he runs aquaponics in paradise right here in Oahu this is think tech away we’re talking about Agrotech in Hawaii we’re looking at it from all sides including especially aquaponics and

paradise thank you so much Albert thank you have you want to show this beer hot you