Starting a new business – Convo with Josh Fenn AKA Bearded Fat Loss

hey what’s going on guys I’m excited for my conversation today with my friend Josh been off there in Portland and he’s recently made the move from having a full time job to starting his own small business micro business he actually got a few of them going on it’s really interesting in the creative space but he’s actually been a creator on YouTube on Instagram for a long time and that’s how he and I first connected so we’ll get into a bunch of that Josh thank you so much man I appreciate you taking the time right of course always happy to chat you know we’ve had our nice ongoing you know kind of digital friendship for a few years now so yeah always happy to come on yeah so you’ve recently started will left your full-time job and went all-in on your on your business yeah mm-hmm oh it was horrifying it was I jumped ship a lot earlier than intended just because I was increasingly more and more miserable at my day job there was a bunch of you know it was a bunch of internal stuff one and then there was some external stuff with the place I was working at that I was just really unhappy which says just like one day I I remember I took a few week break from YouTube just because I was feeling overwhelmed with my workload now it’s like well you know I can’t take a few weeks off of work so I’ll just take a few week break from YouTube and I did that and the second I had like a few days to think I realized like I gotta get out of here and I got to go do my own things I just jump ship a little bit prematurely but yeah definitely scary I am lucky enough to have my my wife with me though that helps kind of offset some of that scariness with having her income there too for when we were jumping ship that was that was a big part of why I stayed on as long as I did she’s a hair stylist and we moved out to Portland 2016 and you know she was talented obviously but moving out here she had to essentially restart and rebuild their whole business and clientele so I was you know covering a lot while she was building up and then she had gotten kind of established enough for me to jump ship and so now we’re both were both added but yeah definitely scary but yeah felt good – yeah it’s definitely I remember the first time I like just straight-up quit a job – to go off and do something and it was very similar the same thing that there was I wasn’t happy with what I was doing I was an engineer you know and I is kind of like the first real job I had had like in my adult life I’d been an entrepreneur for in my 20s and part of my 30s and then you know I took this uh took this job in Telecom and I was working as an engineer and you know almost 10 years in and I just like I can’t keep doing this yeah and it’s funny like I did it and then like there are friends who I had worked with in that company over the years a lot of them just starts to do the same thing because you know it was the it was just the environment you know in that environment sort of forces you to make a decision either get a new job or go do something else and yeah I I went a little extreme though I quit my job moved halfway across the world you know as good as I went I didn’t have anything started up nice yeah that’s that’s crazy yeah if I’ve always had some sort of side hustle and especially some sort of creative side hustle because before I got into YouTube and all of the stuff I’m doing now I was a musician for a lot of years and you know we got to tour around the country and I saw I was always doing multiple things so it feels good now after like so many years of trying like I’m full-time like doing what I want to do as scary as it can be some days it’s awesome you know and in that creative space – there’s so many business aspects to it that I think a lot of people don’t get you know like figuring out pricing figure out market sensitivity sales funnel development like all these things are very time-consuming yeah I know it’s um and it’s been you know with me jumping ship a little bit earlier you know the finances have been a little tight during that transition so the time is so crucial and yeah it’s been tough figuring out some of that stuff because you know I can’t necessarily I I have to know something is going to work at least somewhat if I’m gonna take you know week out of my schedule to work on you know like with that we’ll get into this more later but my cat photography business I have you know a merch line that I designed for my cats Instagram so like having me like dedicate time or like YouTube videos things like that it’s always so crucial you know you got to know something’s gonna work before you know you want in your in your YouTube in your online persona yeah and I want to talk about that because that originally I started following you on Instagram it’s a beard of fat loss and then you watch the YouTube channel I came over to there and I was saying before I don’t know when

you started to share exactly but when I start to follow you had already lost like a ton of weight like a whole person yeah and you were sort of recounting the experience and sharing your insights and a very measured and sort of self experimental way which is what I appreciated about it yeah but you I guess within the last year made the shift from the channel went from bearded fat loss to josh van yeah yeah catalyst behind that you know it’s it was kind of a long time coming when I first started the Instagram account I was you know I was right in the thick of watching you know Fitness youtubers and Instagram pages and stuff and I was trying to think of some you know catchy name and titles like I’ve got a beard you talking about fat loss and you know that was where it came but then as stuff started to take off more you know I kind of was becoming more and more disassociated with the name and just wishing it was my own name but then it was it was scary and I held off for a long time wanting to you know change the channel name and I knew things I didn’t want to lose out on you know growth or lose my following and I had already grown to that point so I put it off and put it off and put it off but over time you know I started to shift more out of weight loss content or at least incorporating other types of content and yeah it was right around when I took that break and went full-time with everything I just kind of decided one day I’m like I’m just gonna bite the bullet and do it yeah if this works the way I want it to you know the little bit of pushback I’m gonna get now in these early stages it’s going to be very insignificant long term so I better just do it now while I can and definitely glad I did because yeah it was I used to do all weight loss content and just over time it’s um you know as my weight maintenance was getting easier and easier for me I was kind of losing some of that passion behind doing all of that content but then also I think even more so it was I just felt like I’m constantly running out of ideas like I have nothing left to teach you and so I was like you know I felt like I was just repeating myself and I was increasingly like less and less in it just because I felt like I covered everything I needed to cover and I had all these other interests I wanted to explore and a lot of the videos I had done kind of outside of the genre had performed really well like my even when it was still beard and fat loss as a channel you know out of my top five videos yeah I had a deep-dish pizza recipe they got like half a million views I had a you know a couple of backpack and bag reviews that that it went up there so you know 60% of my top videos weren’t even related to weight loss anyway so I mean I remember when you moved to Portland you started doing the you started doing the food cooking videos like the recipe videos really somatically doing them well and that was sort of a departure from the original content and then you also start to do the walk with me series I think you called it yeah yeah we would kind of talk about a topic and you were walking to work and I remember you did the first couple of like super cinematic hiking videos yep going out into the woods and like the soft focus oh no and I would personally be a little scared leaving my camera some of those shots you were far away man oh yeah I know it’s set my whole rig up and walk like a half a kilometer out I know that’s why I haven’t done much in the city in a while just because especially now that it’s my livelihood it’s like I had cheap gear then and I had their job then so it was like obviously I would have been devastated if it got stolen but now it’s just so much more important to me I haven’t been wanting to do any of that city stuff like I used to without having someone with me at least in the woods you know you don’t have people around that are gonna walk up and steal unless you’re on some popular trail I suppose but I’ll probably be on a quick sidenote I’ll probably bring back more of those nature type of videos I’ve been super obsessed with like camping and backpacking stuff the last couple of months last week so I did I have filmed and then ended up I didn’t finish the video because I was starting to get hypothermia and just kind of perfect what we’re talking about Joshua no winter camping without winter camping hair laughs yet that was I’ve been watching there’s a youtuber named Steve Wallace yeah he does like stealth camping and winter camping I’ve been completely obsessed with this guy he’s amazing he’s just this like super sweet like kind

Canadian fellow yeah he’s yes I had been watching a bunch of his stuff and he’s a big advocate for like you know you don’t need all this expensive gear to get out there and and I’d been wanting to go camping since I moved out to Portland were in like camping mecca of the country and I been wanting to hold off until I could afford you know really nice backpacking gear and I was like you know what I’m just gonna get some gear go out there but yeah my like knockoff Chinese $30 sleeping bag did not fare well in the you know for celcius is probably like negative one Celsius negative to somewhere around there and yeah it was miserable I am they I and I knew it was kind of the early stages of hypothermia I used to go camping up in the Upper Peninsula in Michigan and we swam in Lake Superior which was like the most brutally cold water you could possibly imagine and I remember getting those feelings when we were doing that and then started to feel that that night but yeah so I got some shots and I’m trying to figure out a way I might do like a little desk storytime and intercut some of the footage I ended up having to postpone that for a few days and work on something else for next week so I can take some more time to think about it but something should be coming and if not I’m already planning and going back out I got a warmer sleeping bag plan on going back out next week or maybe the week after so nice yeah well it’s still pretty cold I guess out in Portland oh yeah it’s especially out in the woods you know because I’m going out I have limited options for marking jokes I’ve been car free but there’s some public transit options to get out to some state parks and things and throughout yeah they’re out in like the coast range of Oregon so it’s all mountains and stuff so even in this summer you know it’s pretty chilly during the nights but yeah right now it’s it’s about in Fahrenheit at least it’s you know right around 50 degrees during the day and right 3035 during during the night yeah broken now cuz I you know I grew up with Fahrenheit grew up with inches and feet and you know I all my education is in like tech and engineering and then living in Asia now for like seven years I’m like completely converted to Celsius and metrics is so much easier it makes so much more sense like zero and a hundred yeah it’s just it’s logic yeah it drives me nuts I’m completely broken I’m like hi I don’t know if I can go back to you as I see a sign that’s like you know only 20 miles an hour but yeah it’s yeah I don’t even know for the tempura and any sort of distance measurements to I don’t know metric makes sense and it just is like the epitome of America for like we’re the only country that yeah it’s us and me Tamar oh really I thought it was just us in Myanmar and I think like Libya or something you know so like three powerhouses so let’s talk about the business that you started cuz you hinted at your cat photography business and yeah you doin that before you left your job but you’ve essentially become a freelance videographer photographer for the most part while you’re still structuring the business and figuring it all out is that right Josh yeah yeah absolutely and so like what did you do when the day you quit you know what was like step one like okay I don’t have a full-time job anymore what did you do first thing you know first thing was just kind of like scrambling and trying to figure out how to get clients and you know just doing a lot of research and things like that the thing that really helps for getting you know cuz it’s so tough to get from that zero to one when you’re starting off with freelancing helped to that I had to youtube and especially around the time I quit you know there’s highs and lows too like YouTube traffic and income and stuff so as I was doing pretty good to have like a little bit of stable income from the YouTube channel but yeah I had really just reached out and kind of extended myself to my network make sure everyone knew you know that I was doing this and my skill set and I think that’s a good strategy a lot of people think you know talking to your friends or family it’s like you’re begging for money or something but I think the key is like not necessarily asking them to hire you for things but as a couple of examples you know my wife’s a hair stylist so she’ll you know chat with her clients so what does your husband do and you know then so that’ll come up in conversation there I was able to land a couple of jobs with I Heart Radio doing photography for a couple of events just

through that so it was you know my wife talking about just her life and what her husband does for a living and then you know I had a friend that worked for a local environmental nonprofit and they were you know they do a big yearly video with an award show and he had remembered oh yeah my friend just started doing this so let’s reach out to him so you know having it’s kind of that uh that one extra step outside of your network if your whole network knows what you do you know it’ll come up in their conversations and you know so that was that was a good way for me to get jump-started with everything I think it also helps to having the the YouTube channel and you know not that I have a giant following but you know having a little bit of credibility from that just helps get you a little bit more connected with a lot of people but yeah yep now I also you your network couldn’t have been as robust as previous because you had work you had recently moved from Michigan to Portland yeah yeah that were building that up again yeah that that’s also been tough I had thought about that as well as like if I was still back in Michigan I know all these people and being around with bands and things and I had a lot of context and you know music industry back there but oh yeah so I was already kind of working and building that up but luckily you know we’ve between my wife and I we’ve made some some pretty good friends and contacts and things around here yeah like I said to the YouTube channel it’s a really great way to get connected with a lot of people yeah I remember when you first moved out there you posted some videos where you were going to like like what they call it trivia night type stuff oh yeah train around of the trolley around yeah we stew and we’ve just gotten like old and boring since then – yeah we we were when we were first moving out here you know trying to meet people and make friends and stuff we were yeah going to all sorts of random nights and yeah checking all those types of event pages and stuff online going out to stuff and yeah really great way to meet people and and we actually ended up meeting you know we’re in a decently big apartment building downtown so we made quite a few friends that live in our building or people that used to live here which is nice you know having some nice people to go you know grab a quick drink or something with and and then as two friends from Malaysia that live in the same building and never knew it Oh both for years and years and I interviewed it’s funny I’ve interviewed them both on my previous radio show in Malaysia and then one of them on my current ones but they that they were in some startup accelerator they’re both entrepreneurs and that’s how they met and they realized that they lived in the same building and they both knew me yeah it’s um it’s crazy a small world and some of those things yeah yeah you know so that’s cool that you’ve got that you sort of like took the time to build up network make friends you know get to know people out there cuz that can be tough when you move especially like when you’re like in your like late 20s 30s 40s and you move somewhere and yeah you don’t know anyone and you’re just trying to like build a network get to know people find out you know what’s interesting you know um but you know by the same token I’m sort of in that same sort of old man drop myself like Jim and I pretty much we live downstairs is our workspace in our studio and then upstairs is our living space and then everything that we want for the most part is within like a kilometer of where we live so we walked to the night market for dinner we maybe go out to like a certain restaurant I’m the I’m the main road for lunch you know we just work from home all day ya know I yeah I get that yeah I um you know being on foot and living downtown and everything I barely leave my like few block radius yeah I I have to give most of the credit to my wife for getting me up and about cuz yeah I’m I’m usually too pretty quiet and introverted and don’t like doing a lot of social events but yeah my wife kind of gets me keeps me like a I always treat I always joke that she you know helps me stay like a regular like a normal person yeah you know I’m also car free I don’t drive I can’t imagine driving in in the city especially in Bangkok where the traffic’s insane oh yeah yeah but we’re foot we’re both fortunate that we live in in cities that have amazing public transportation yeah yeah people take it for granted and indefinitely I realized how lucky I am but simultaneously you know it’s not the norm here I don’t know how it is in Bangkok oh I would assume with a bigger city it’s probably a little more normalized but even in Portland has the best transit I’ve been in any US city at in my you know scope at least but it

uh even out here though not very many people you utilize the transit and that like I still remember when I was still out working you know people still looked at me like I was weird and and so like it’s it’s funny that for amazed as amazing as it is it’s not that normalized but then also to if if that’s a goal that you might want to achieve that was a huge reason what you know why we wanted to move out here to begin with so I think people kind of have this you know why me or poor me type of mentality for like huh you know I wish or if I was in that situation you know if someone really wanted to you could definitely take the steps to do stuff like that you know yeah it’s funny like I lived in Ohio in Cleveland before I moved to Thailand and Rhode Island before that both places where you really can’t get around without a car like it’s it’s a necessity like and it’s an unfortunate necessity and then in Bangkok I know so many people who drive who just sit in traffic yeah and you know for me I’m like I can we have these little things called song tells they would never be legal in the US but they’re little mini pickup trucks and songs house two rows so there’ll be two rows of seats in the back and for essentially like six ba which is like 20 cents I can take that from the we call a street a soy from the soy that I live on up to where the Train is is about a five-minute song tile ride for 20 cents then I can jump on our sky train which is beautiful is absolutely gorgeous and it runs through most of the city and then we have a subway that goes through another part of the city and they intersect at multiple locations it’s just such a fantastic system and of course we have buses the buses are a little crazy because they don’t really stop and I have a video that’s actually done really well on my channel called Bangkok bus eight and it’s not the day we took it it wasn’t super crazy but it was a little sketchy nice yeah there’s some yeah there’s all sorts of random transit things out here unfortunately nothing that cheap but kind of on a similar cheap spectrum like even when I was going out camping I found this but it was called the Columbia County rider and it’s this it connects Portland out to the Pacific coast it’s about 80 miles away so there’s a handful of bus lines and I rode this bus out from town I took like our main the TriMet is what they you know our transit systems I took the train out there and I connected with this bus and it took me like 40 miles for three dollars because it was amazing and like I don’t think anyone really realizes their utilizes that sort of stuff it’s that’s awesome tons of options the other the other crazy thing we have our hair is scooter taxis and so you can take here we call them motorcycle when it’s like um a guy on a scooter and you jump on the back and it takes you where you want to go and usually like I’ll take it occasionally like from my house to to the Train if I’m like really in a hurry and because it’s it’s much faster but the other day I was really running late at a coffee meeting with someone and I was running behind schedule so I ordered we have an app called grab it’s similar to BRR and so I ordered a motorcycle taxi on that and we jump behind and it was the most terrifying experience in my life because we had to go down this uh this main road in Bangkok called sukima it’s like you know any main road in like a big city right it’s just tons of traffic people swerving in and out and he was just throttling it with me on the back it sounds crazy yeah we we finally got all of the electric scooters and Steffan now to different from you know what you’ve got but yeah that’s been a fun thing it’s a little bit it’s so expensive though compared to just walking or taking the regular transit but it’s a fun like every once in a while sort of thing but I’ve done that once out here and was it was crazy expensive I could have I could have taken a boss for like a tenth of the price right you know obviously he could walk for free I think I was going like 2 kilometers and it cost me if I remember was like a hundred and seventy baht which is like three ish dollars so not a ton of money but compared to it was probably it least double the cost of any other expensive transportation model it was fun scary at times but fun you know and they they don’t have pneumatic wheels out here I don’t know if yours have pneumatic wheels these had solid wheels so how ill

every like it um it depends on the brain some of them do some of them don’t but yeah it’s a night and day difference for yeah for the hard wheels yeah yeah yeah so but yeah the other thing if I ever really need a car and I’m sure it’s the same for you I can rent one for like a day or two exactly we have an enterprise you know there’s there’s all the apps like Toro and get around and I don’t have a lot of experience with them but yeah we have an enterprise that’s you know within a mile of us and I think you know on the off season like right now we can rent a car for 15 bucks for the day you know so we’ll do that every couple of months to go to the coast or if I have a job that’s further out you know I usually end up renting a car for work you know one Thor so yeah so why do you need exactly why do you need to own a car when there’s all these other options and I know and I always think about that too like even if money was absolutely no issue like I would reactor just go rent a car once a week if I really wanted to you know this dress yeah additional call I mean even though he said if money’s not an issue but the additional cost that maintenance insurance all these things for something that you use at most once a week yeah and then it really is so stressful I know you can relate to this but I’m sure anyone that drives regularly doesn’t won’t really understand it it’s so stressful driving when you know when you kind of step away from it and go back to it’s like jeez this is a lot of yeah I like being able to quietly you know sit on the bus or sit up in the train and get stuff done or walk and yeah it’s stress driving through all that traffic so yeah I I really love not having to deal with that as much as possible you know it’s nice now in Bangkok they started to implement seat free trains nice Oh like certain cars will have like no seats or only half the seats mm-hmm so they have like spots you can stand and then sort of lean up against the wall if it’s not too full and is it’s much more comfortable for me or at least like I you know to like stand the whole time as opposed to sit because I sit so much during the day you know no I do the same yeah yeah yeah some of our trains will have you know it’s yeah I’d say it’s probably about half and half more seats than not but you know right by the doors you have big open areas I usually like to stand too because he has sitting all day working I don’t need to sit on the train I can stand for like 5 minutes 10 minutes you know now I want to I want to get back to your business though so yeah you networked your way into like your first couple jobs and are you seeing steady growth it’s um you know to be honest the last few months have been much more focused in YouTube stuff and that’s like I was saying with having to kind of really evaluate my time so it it just depends on the month or the time you know I’ll I’ll go through these bouts or I’m really focused on you know the cat photography business or the freelance video business or YouTube and so it’s kind of a poll between but yeah growth has been pretty steady I I haven’t put as much attention into growing the freelancing as much as I probably should but yeah it’s um it’s worked out pretty well and and the business is funny enough you know cuz like I’ll be focusing on one other thing but they’ve been slowly starting to merge you know last year I had a handful of video jobs that I got from the cafeteria business I worked with a couple of animal shelters and kind of creating like promotional documentaries for them and stuff so it’s been them they’ve been almost kind of merging so it’s yeah it’s kind of snowball absolutely it’s I haven’t been my photography yeah okay I’m sure people are one now what is what is a cap photography business and how did you come up with this idea yeah so it’s it all started off I you know having the YouTube channel I got my cat Wolfie and towards the end of 2017 he’s an adorable little British Shorthair gray cat super cute a bunch of people were bugging me like you have to start an Instagram forum and and I was already taken a billion photos of them anyway just for fun and a cat photography video for your YouTube channel yeah yeah is cat photography 101 5 tips to take better pictures that your cat something like that but but yeah so a bunch of people were egging me on the start an Instagram account forum and I did and I was just blown away how fast it was growing you know his with pretty minimal effort his account went from you know zero to 30,000 in a year and inside I had started and people are really liking the photos and as I kind of dove more into the like pet Instagram space

not very many people take nice photos either even the bigger channels and so I was realizing like my photos are really better than a lot of other people’s and and then I’d quit the job and part of we helped my security I was like I should try and figure out some other income streams and and because the photos were so well received I was like you know I could probably replicate this and take photos of other people’s animals and you know there’s Portland I don’t mean to laugh oh no I realize how silly it is definitely no no hard feelings but yeah so the the photos were taken well and I thought you know I could probably do this for other people and Portland is actually a huge animal town and there are quite a few pet photographers but no one everyone focuses on dogs almost completely and not very many people focus on cats and and that was always a big in the research I’ve done this is probably the case for any sort of freelancing but for for photography you know kind of finding where you can specialize yourself and you know because there was a bunch of pet photographers no one was really doing cats I was like I can take better photos of cats than most people I’ve found on the internet so I was like I’m gonna set this up and kind of market it as like a you know higher-end maybe not like a luxury service but definitely like a professional high-end photographer because the type of people that are gonna spend any noticeable amount of money on photos for their pet you know they’re gonna want to bus like I hired a cat photographer so you know I really wanted to market myself as a professional and and the photos you know the quality was there to match so I I just started getting into it and set up the website and set up a second cat Instagram account just for all the the client photos and yeah so it all started from from getting my cats Instagram and and a big thing that helped take that off and kind of build up my portfolio to have other cats and and get more experience with it I started volunteering with some foster like cat fostering agencies that’s been super fun and rewarding to kind of as a side note it’s a great way to kind of get my foot into the business a bit and get some experience but yeah super fun helping out and like taking photos of these foster cats and like the photos leading to them getting homes and all that it’s very adorable it’s a it’s like a nice yeah it’s a nice respite from like the video work I love it and I’m very passionate about it but it’s it’s very mentally exhausting this is something like nice and simple about going and taking pictures of these adorable cats and yeah yeah but so let me ask you then what is the what’s the kit look like for a professional cat photographer because I know we talked about like before you you have like cheaper gear and now that you sort of went in like so tell me tell us tell the audience what it is you invested in when you first got started at this and then what is your video versus your photography kit and specifically I’m just really curious to know what the cap photography kit is absolutely sir and uh like certain things that you have that you wouldn’t have to shoot people for instance yeah yeah so um that’ll play on doing a whole separate video for the the cat photography bag at some point but uh one other thing to mention on the lines of gear that gave me a bit of a competitive edge with the kaepa dog Rafi was another thing people don’t I already had all of my expensive camera equipment from the video business and YouTube so I had a big edge of like having overly nice gear for what the job is but uh yeah the camera is pretty similar in in terms of the lenses and stuff I use yeah I have a Sony a7 three that’s what you’re seeing on here right now and then my my main cat photography lens up until very recently I just picked up a new lens that I’ve been really liking but it’s the zeiss batis 85mm meter it’s just a portrait lens really great for people too but yes I have kind of the usual my my camera my lenses but then along with my kind of regular camera equipment which is pretty standard what I’d bring for people photo shoots or animal photo shoots I have like a separate area I bring catnip spray oh yeah it’s like just like a little spray bottle some cats like it some cats don’t but uh yeah I always carry that with me I carry treats like I get these little treat samples from my pet store and I’ll bring those with me and and then I have like a little mouse wand toy that I you know I’m playing with them and then I yeah so

I’m always picking up like random little toys and stuff I can pack in there yeah so toys treats catnip stuff I recently picked up catnip bubbles yeah yeah I had the idea of like how how cool would it be to have you know that kind of shallow depth of field with a bunch of bubbles in the foreground and background and stuff so far there’s only been a couple of cats that have really liked them but the photos turned cool when they were into it but yeah but yeah I mean that’s about it you got to keep compared to you know I don’t do any studio type of photography you know I use lighting and stuff for video but most of my photography gigs have been more like event photography or outdoor portraits so I usually don’t but yeah you have to keep the gear down for the cats because if you have like big lights and all this obnoxious equipment you know they just not into it or they get scared so essentially I’m just like playing with them and like sneaking photos in my other hand so I’ll have like a toy in one hand foot my camera in the other yeah yeah yeah that’s like you got to use natural light no flash no no lighting equipment or anything go stay close to the window yeah I shoot on Fuji actually have a Fuji XH one you love those colors and love it’s a used to shoot Canon and I got so frustrated with Canada and when they did I wasn’t happy with the when they did the mirrorless switchover and like the feature they brought more and more about what they didn’t bring yeah should have and and then the whole new lens mile and you know some issues with the adapter I was just really frustrated and my cannons were all sort of end-of-life anyway yeah I was like yeah you know if I’m gonna switch this is the time right like I’ve got some caring glass but and Gipp still prefers to shoot on her Canon so all of our L lens that she uses well I was like let me see what I like and at the time the XH one was on sale with like a battery grip and extra batteries and all this stuff I made a switch and after I had shot my friends xt3 in Malaysia and I’ve never been happier with a camera I mean it’s so and like I don’t feel like the pressure to upgrade because Fugees like their line is smaller they’re you know they’re they’re great cycles are slower and something about the camera just feels a little bit more sustainable I am that I’ve never actually shot with Fuji but anything I’ve ever seen like all the Fuji colours are so amazing yeah that’s the one downside you know the Sony cameras have a really bad rap for the colors and I’m realizing too this is all like extra flat what you’re seeing right now because with the picture profile for the stream but but yeah Sony cameras in recent years have gotten way better with their color science like the a 7-3 versus like a 7s2 or I have my B cam as the a 6400 the colors are really amazing the autofocus is incredible which is really important for YouTube stuff a lot of times not being able to be behind the camera and then also you have for the cat photography especially if it’s super autofocus intensive so yeah I’ve been I’ve been pretty happy with that if if I had you know unlimited cash to get you know dedicated gear for the cat photography down the road I really want to get something a little bit higher megapixel than this because I had this mostly for video and it’s amazing for video but I I have my eye on like they have the a seminar for is 60 megapixels cuz I really want to get into in addition to like the client work for the cat photographer I want to start selling online like almost like fine art prints I picture like macro detail shots of cat things and stuff to be able to sell I feel like people would be you know very specific cat person would be into that sort of stuff but yeah exactly it’s it’s crazy though it’s a whole other universe when when I first started diving in yeah it’s um it’s also – just the most like nice in positive place on the internet that I’ve been like getting in all this stuff with with any of the pet related social media stuff everywhere everyone’s just nice every like it yeah it’s adorable I’m feel the weight loss space was not as kind now or yeah or anything most everything I’m doing on you you know it is not nearly as kind yeah weight loss deaf people have a hair-trigger around like minimalism type

of things on YouTube you know Tech has its fair share of you know YouTube Tech has its fair share of people like I get some get some crazy stuff all the time like you know people don’t like it they don’t like it some people really hate the stuff I do so it’s like yeah whatever yeah I mean yeah you gotta just do your best to push that stuff out goodsoon yeah yeah I took almost two years off and I was working on some other projects like really like taking up a lot of my time and I just had the energy for for YouTube when I came back I was like oh let’s see how it goes and I posted up so I was like what the fuck I thought you died who died geez people yeah people are crazy that sort of stuff makes me nuts sometimes but it’s usually with my videos if they stay if if they don’t perform like super you know if they don’t get pushed out into the world like if they in my community it’s usually really nice and for the most part yeah I get far more nice than not nice comments but yeah any of the videos that really like take off and get pushed out into the general public people are just insane like like I did a minimalist tech bag video kind of showing the stuff I carry around day-to-day and you know I have five things in there you know you can you could have a laptop in there and nothing else some people would say oh that’s too much tech or you know you can have like a notebook and a pen and complain that you have you know too too many things it’s not about less stuff it’s about only the stuff that has value exactly that’s an end and it’s funny it’s all these like bandwagon people that that saw the Netflix documentary that came out a few years it’s which you know it’s a fine documentary but yeah all these people are like you know minimalism experts that I have to please everyone and it makes it make tough for people you know I I always I see minimalism as a tool to utilize yeah like focusing on things that bring value to your life and getting rid of the things that don’t and it’s it’s a practice and a tool it’s not you are or aren’t it’s a tool that you utilize in your day-to-day so there’s no you know it’s yeah that stuff frustrates me I don’t need her I don’t use and someone else could some way but at the same time like we have a design studio downstairs full of stuff yeah in the building we live in we have a whole storage room up on the second floor just for jibs like inventory it’s like a room full of just stuff anti minimalist thing ever it’s well organized but it’s tough yes sometimes you just need that stuff like I am you know I have a ton of camera I know I don’t have a ton compared to a lot of people but you know for me I have a lot of camera equipment and in my eyes and but you know I use every last bit of it like I was shooting a video for youtube yesterday and I had literally like every single piece of everything I owned was set up for this one shoots like you know you should make it like a video of like your minimalist camera setup and just like one cheap like zoom lens that’s like 16 – like 390 and no light and just you know like that this is my minimalist and somehow you could just use your phone yeah I know that’s a yeah there’s there’s no winning with those complainers out there it is um it was really big there’s a Japanese guy who’s really big in popular and uh in Thailand at least for YouTube even though his videos are in Japanese but he only does he’s like super minimalist he lives in like a room with like a notepad and a desk and yeah I mean maybe it’s not that extreme maybe here’s like a spoon in a bowl but you know it’s you know what I mean it’s like super nothingness yeah and I mean that’s cool if you can do that and he’s obviously making a living from doing it he’s like filming himself and giving it by so this and when you have that few things but you’re creating all this content around it yeah throws up some red flags for me yeah and I I always have a tough time to with with that sort of stuff I feel like there’s a level of like cheapening minimalism the more content I make around it so I’d try and be you know light-handed with what I’m doing around that because yeah I feel like it kind of takes away some of the the positive attributes with with doing a ton of

stuff around it and yeah and yeah I am I’m nowhere near that extreme with things I I don’t even like to necessarily call myself a minimalism like or a minimalist like I said it’s I just kind of see it as a tool in my life that I like to lean on for things I see it the same way like I’ve been at points in my life we’re like I had like very few things I was telling someone the other day I’m LinkedIn when I was single and I was living by myself I had literally a metal cup a metal plate a spoon and a fork and not because I was trying to be like all ultra cool minimalist but I just didn’t want to wash a bunch of stuff you know we had this I think I had a rice cooker because that’s what I cooked everything and so if it was like if I couldn’t combine everything into one pot and cook it in the rice cooker and in like one of those cheap rice cookers where you just like press the button down and wait for it yeah you know then you know that’s just all I wanted to deal with though and other things to focus on in my life yeah it’s nice and that’s definitely how I kind of feel about a lot of stuff with as much as I love the things that I own and use them but you know everything that in in my eyes at least everything that you own or have is a responsibility in a sense and yeah and that’s just like you would not wanting to deal with it yeah I just try and get rid of that excess because I don’t want to deal with any of it yeah so you know it’s funny a lot of apartments or houses in Thailand don’t have kitchens you know a big part of that is that it’s so much easier to eat out here and it’s actually so much cheaper yeah yeah I have heard of that so many times from you and other people visiting and stuff I I love eating out it’s just too expensive I love it too much for the eat up and cooking I do love cooking though it’s it’s just like when I have the time and desire to cook is when I really enjoy it but yeah generally it’s I cook more for function I guess they’re like practicality than enjoyment for most now it’s like the stuff I eat at home is like some Marmite and crackers or like I have frozen spinach with like I’ll make that with pasta and then I’ll package that for a few days and I would be like if I don’t want to go out for lunch because I know it’s gonna be crazy sunny yeah this sounds stupid but the Sun here is incredibly strong and so when I get that you know it’s already a hundred degrees fahrenheit during the day and then the Sun just beating on you and if I have to walk like a kilometer to get lunch I’ll just prep lunch for like four days and eat that yeah that’s terrible yeah we always joke about this and email yeah we have like opposite problems with that it’s like yeah the rain will be out so I’m like I’m just not going outside today but but I’ve been like further south in the US and in Mexico and stuff there’s definitely a difference and like being closer to the equator with the Sun yeah it’s it’s crazy like the other day Jeb and I went out for lunch and we’re just literally it was like 500 meters down the road to this somtum shop sometimes like a green papaya salad that I’m addicted to and I wore my Teva sandals like the ones that have like the the strap gyms like I was really sunny sure you want to wear those like we’re just walking down the road and literally by the time I got back my toes were starting to burn yeah I’ve said that that sandals tan line or burn line I should say before yeah I know I burned so easily there there’s one time I got Sun poisoning from being outside for an hour I was I was house-sitting for so yeah it was crazy I’d never Furion ‘zed anything like that before or since I was I was house-sitting for a friend that lived on a lake she had a paddle boats I went out on this paddle boat just in shorts and I didn’t put on sunblock because I was an idiot yeah it was back in Michigan yeah I was out for like 45 minutes or an hour and if I had like the flu essentially and I that yeah it was crazy I my poor Polish skin can’t handle all that sunshine yeah my french-canadian genetics doesn’t do well with it either and yeah I live in you know the tropics in Asia yeah that’s crazy but you know it’s funny because people always give me a hard time like when they don’t people who don’t live here will give me a hard time when they’ll see like I wear pants every day and we’re a long-sleeve shirt every day and I wear I wear a cap everywhere cuz I’m I’ve got this a huge solar panel on my head now that my hairline is receding and so everyone’s like aren’t you so hot hot wearing all that clothes but the reality is no like I’m protecting myself from the Sun and you have to understand that in Bangkok at least everything is air-conditioned to the extreme oh really everything is like like freezing like you you see like Thai people walking

around like sweaters and you know like feeling looking cold and because it’s cold inside yeah that’s good at least yeah yeah sometimes with certain places like Portland is such a cusp sort of place with the weather where it’s not super hot very often here so there’s a lot of like older buildings and stuff that don’t have a ton of air-conditioning yeah it’s I can’t even imagine I’m I’m so soft with my temperatures I love my AC in the summer you know it’s funny is that I when I lived in Rhode Island like I would run the aircon a lot but there was probably a big portion of like spring into summer and fall that you know I just no aircon no heat I would just like enjoy the the weather Ohio too for the most part I mean summer is kind of week there it’s it’s not as cold as like say we were you lived in Michigan but I was pretty cold especially Cleveland but you know here in Thailand like we might get like three or four days a year that I don’t need to run the air conditioner and you know it’s brutal like sometimes like I’ll try to really just stretch it like I’ll push myself like like I’ll see if I can get till noon about aircon and then but it’s like oh I get to like 10:00 a.m. and I’m sweating like in my at my desk it’s rough there’s um with with all my recent camping and backpacking obsessions I’ve been learning a bunch about different fabrics and stuff or for clothing to take out and yeah I know with the long-sleeve stuff if you have the right fabrics if it’s long-sleeve you know it’s not gonna be any warmer and then yeah you get all the sun protection too yeah now with the winter – I mean like a silk base layer makes a great insulating base layer for cold weather you know something like a Mariano wool which will actually wick moisture away keep you dry and warm yeah like there’s a lot of cold weather since you’re going out again in a few weeks you know there’s a lot of things you can do layer wise I was lucky enough I had a outlier I don’t know if the clothing company there they’re based on New York they’re like really small run like small release runs of things but they have like this big cult following online they reached out and asked if I wanted to try anything to review for the channel they sent they’re sending out some really really awesome pants that are yeah like the they’ll be the perfect pants to take out because the other or not they’re kind of like denim but they’re not cotton they they boast them is the perfect travel pant like the last yeah what it’s not kind no no they’re I forgot what the blend is but it’s some like I don’t know I can’t even remember now but yeah some sort of like what’s that yeah I’m drawing a blank but do you know of a brand called Naked and Famous denim brand I’ve heard of them never tried it but yeah I’ve heard of the frame um they have a gene made from cashmere hmm it’s like a cashmere denim and I feel like a thousand dollars like more than a thousand dollars because cashmere is not cheap that’s crazy yeah yeah it’s like a cashmere salvaged denim jean and they look like crazy warm that’s the same thing like some of the merino wool stuff can get so expensive but pricey especially Asia like the import tax cuz jibs mean business is knitting knitting and crochet yeah Camero Mariano wool and like all these other like cashmere stuff can be insane with the import duties jeez yeah it’s crazy fun stuff so hey back to back to ya know where do you where you see it going what’s your goal for your business yeah so long term yeah I’m really hoping to have YouTube be my like steady source of income maybe not steady but kind of like my main job and source of income to come from YouTube and then beyond that you know I have we’ve talked about this before and the email had a lot of aspirations for the the cat photography business is kind of launching that as more of like an online lifestyle brand outside of just client work you know having like blog posts and eventually I’d like to start a second YouTube channel talk about you know cat tips and things like that and yeah just kind of flesh that out with blog and a store and YouTube channel and so I have that kind of long term for the cat business and then yeah YouTube I just really hoped keeps growing and kind

of gives me the freedom for that to be my main income to work on other bigger projects and the the freelance business for for video yeah long term I really hope to get into kind of bigger production work or not even necessarily bigger production work but just bigger projects I have aspirations so working for other people more per in all projects I definitely wouldn’t be opposed to working with other people but I have some aspirations for a few kind of longer format documentaries and things I’m just really not able to dedicate the time or resources to right now so eventually I’m hoping yeah for YouTube to continue to grow and continue to increase the income along with the the cat business and then being able to kind of really dial back the freelance business to just a handful of projects a year that I’m really passionate about whether it’s companies I want to work with or personal projects I want to do you know documentaries and stuff yeah yeah cool yeah so if you have a plan to get there you know working on it right now with YouTube that’s a like I said I’ve just been super focused in on YouTube stuff the last couple of months or a few months yeah and just really working on putting out the best content possible for so long as a few years ago you know I’m relatively new to cameras and all of that stuff I I have a background in graphic design so I understand a lot of things that overlap you know with and have a lot of experience long-term you know the color theory and composition and editing and that sort of thing but you know I’m relatively new on the spectrum of photographer videographer so for a long time I was just so focused on learning how to do everything now I feel like I have a strong grasp on the production so I’ve just been focusing a lot more on you know providing better content whether it be you know me being a better host and you know doing a better job of like writing and planning and being a bit more succinct succinct in in videos and yeah so just kind of working on me being a better presenter on YouTube and and just putting out the best possible content most entertaining or informative or whatever the the video would call for so working on growing that further just through hard work and better videos you know with the all of the the cat business you know I am being focused on that I’ve pretty much kind of on autopilot for the time being but yeah hopefully this year I’m gonna get started on kind of more of those online aspects that I want to grow and any other freelance business yeah just continuing to take all the clients I can get essentially at this being so early on and you know growing the first year on my own and financially has been a you know a bit of a stressful one so I’m still yeah taken everything I can get essentially just figuring out where to best divide up my time and yeah I’m kind of like in the same boat where it’s like um I think we talked like I’m sort of like looking at like a three-year transition plan until whatever is next in my life yeah and like we talked to have the haberdashery business where I make like sort of like mostly bags like really minimalist totes or more town like us and denim briefcase designs now but you know I’m still like working in the tech space are still pushing deals developing stuff and you know that’s what I’m trying to sort of phase away from and then I’ve been I took some time off from YouTube again like the last like three weeks I’m sort of banking a lot of content and editing and just trying to come back in like full force and start having a decent amount of contact come out regularly and you know plus all the podcasts that I produce now or like some of them are starting to do fairly well getting traction so it’s alright yeah and I you know with especially with YouTube stuff and that’s yeah I’ve been trying to set up a bit of a backlog so I can free up my time because I feel like last year with getting started off with everything and having clients and YouTube simultaneously I was always like last minute and I feel like I don’t operate that well creatively when it’s like alright today is my day to do something I’m not sure what I’m gonna do yet but it’s got to be done by tomorrow yeah so it’s yeah I’ve been really working on building up a bit of a you know some lead time on YouTube and so I can just kind of free up to take time to put out more and then free up time from the other businesses yeah and and yeah the the frustrating part it’s it’s just a matter of you know for YouTube in my experience matter of like

putting in the work and time yeah and that you know good quality content consistent content and time you know the growth has been steady though last year you know with transitioning out of exclusively weight loss and rebranding the channel you know it’s I think it views for last year or up like 25-30 percent or something so it’s like it’s you know it’s not that you you know it’s not that viral jump that you you kind of hope for and see for those handful of people out there in in the space but you know growth is steady and so it’s you know I feel confident with seeing the numbers you know if I just keep going it’s just gonna keep going up and up and yeah when I recently relaunched I kind of saw like I didn’t think it was gonna do so well and my first couple of videos fell flat and then like something starts like pick up more as I go okay I’m getting a certain see a little bit more traction they said two years off I was surprised anyone was still following me but yeah yeah that’s crazy yeah is panic even like I’ve taken a few weeks off two times in the you know three and a half years I’ve been on YouTube and yeah I always get a little panicky with that like people are they still gonna be there in a month you know for me it’s something I enjoy doing and I started doing because I want to share stuff and it’s funny like some of the you talk about your most popular videos one of my most popular videos is like a things about Bangkok video and I definitely don’t want to make travel content but like everyone watches that video I feel bad for like someone who watches that then subscribe to my channel know that happens to me all the time with my original weight loss story video it’s a horrible video is literally the second video I had ever made not just for YouTube but just ever and it was awful and in that video still puts down so many views and yeah I know it’s it’s just so different from everything I’m doing now and yeah I’ll get subscribers and I’ll notice sometimes when that video picks up I’ll notice a jump in unsubscribes after I publish if if that videos getting more views at the time but yeah I mean it’s it’s still still going and churning out I think it’s at like a million and a half views or something right now it’s it’s crazy how long you know that it’s just been running yeah that’s great yeah see it’s it’s tough though like I’m obviously I’m happy that it did well but the video is awful like after like it’s um and and I like I still believe the you know my story and everything like it’s not awful in the sense of what I was trying to portray but yeah I just didn’t understand how to use a camera or how to talk to the camera you know it’s it’s just like you know everyone talks about you know just kind of suck it up your first few videos are gonna suck just post them anyway and you know you’ll get better and and that everything will be fine it’s it’s like being constantly reminded of like you’re embarrassing early working so I’ll still you know be answering comments from that video instead have you thought about are redoing it I I have especially to like you had said with not one to make travel videos with the algorithm you know if you have one successful video doing videos related to that one always kind of gets a competitive advantage I’ve thought about doing some sort of like revisited but yeah that one’s just it’s in my my list of video idea notes and it’ll sit there until I can figure out a way to do it how much did you lose in total Josh 145 pounds I’m right about 170 to still weigh myself every morning it’s just part of my routine now but but yeah I’ve been maintaining it for almost five years now it’s crazy they even say that you know it was 2015 that’s pretty much when I lost the the bulk of everything and s around in 2020 now it’s um it’s funny after being so many years you know I don’t think about it much anymore and sometimes like I’ll look back on that old stuff and it doesn’t even necessarily feel like me but yeah it’s that it’s been good though yeah I’ve uh I’m a big dude I’m like 280 and even when I get lean I’ll be like 260 yeah cuz you’re pretty tall too right I know no yeah well yeah I guess that’s not super tall but and you also just have like big like stockier build that’s not like me Frank dude I used to be a professional fighter a heavyweight and I

fight at 265 and so I’ve ran a marathon like six years ago half marathon six years ago I get down to like 230 pounds to run this half marathon and a lot of people thought I like look sick at 2:30 oh yeah that’s tough especially it’s tough for for you to get used to that sort of thing and then yeah really tough for people around you like my mom is still convinced like I lost too much weight all these years later she hasn’t brought it up in a little while but yeah that was a yeah it’s tough for people to adjust to that sort of thing around you but yeah I could imagine with your frame yeah your height you know getting down that low it was often you know jib used to be a nutritionist at a hospital she didn’t has a master’s in nutrition and she’s always like when we first started to date I would eat the same thing this is when I was like still like prepping for the half marathon a the same thing like every day and I can sort of get in a rut like that and it doesn’t bother me like I don’t need variety in my diet I can eat the same thing for breakfast every day lunch and dinner yeah there I was eating the same exact thing they like the same fruit for breakfast every day and I would have some Tom which is that green papaya salad for lunch in there and she sent me a spreadsheet with my weekly nutrition and she’s like you’re lacking everything in red you’re lacking and pretty much the whole spreadsheet was red nice yeah I always have to watch that sort of stuff too because I get super repetitive with my meals yeah yeah but you know it’s I mean it it worked out to the point where it’s like she’s like oh you need to change what you eat I was like well let me finish this marathon and this half marathon we’ll talk about it and I should have listened to her beforehand because she was worried about my carb intake before the marathon I didn’t have enough I hit a wall like the halfway point yeah especially for any of that you know I’m not a runner at all but I know just know any sort of like high performance especially endurance sports like that all that stuff gets so vital there was um I can’t really good at it I just did it I wasn’t like a good runner I mean if you did it that’s better than better than me for sure and better than most I would imagine yeah I I always thought when I was heavy I thought I hated running because I was heavier I lost the weight and I still earning just sucks yeah I know it’s it’s terrible like I used to joke I haven’t done as much lately but I got really into cycling a few years back and like I I was joke I would rather cycle like a hundred miles then like run a 5k mile cycle a century it’s not easy yeah that um the most I’ve ever did was 30 yeah I used to my usual rides were like 15 to 20 miles and then I’d do like a 30 35 mile every so yeah every month yeah yeah I am to be honest the main thing I I had to abandon the hobby mostly when I started YouTube a lot of like playing video games cycling a lot of this random stuff just I lost the time for it well I haven’t gone out much lately because our air quality has been so bad so now that the air quality is starting to get better I’ll go out more and do it unicycle sounds horrifying yeah it’s you know the first couple times are really scary really scary see I’ve got I still lift I’m really into this whole grease the groove theology now what’s that so grease the groove we’re like instead of like my only concentrated workout during the day is like my cardio workout everything else is like low reps many many times so I’ll do curls because every day is armed a push-up squats of kettlebell swings and I’ll just do like 5 to 10 reps at a time all throughout the day and so I’m never like going to failure and never working you know to to that point I’m just doing it you know when I can when I have time I get up and I walk to the kitchen I throw ten kettlebell swings I can push up so I grab the curl bar and I’ll bang out like 1012 reps and that’s my my workout all day long is what I do and you know it’s funny because I still feel strong I feel like I’m getting stronger you know if I’m at my desk sitting and I have a minute while something encodes I’ll pick up one of my grippers and I’ve found out ten reps in each hand um but I’m not trying to get bigger yeah it’s like I don’t want to be big I’m 41 now so I have to realize that my body’s not gonna be able to maintain my mass forever yeah right so I gotta figure out

a way to get stay strong and keep doing the workouts I like but get smaller yeah I mean what you’re doing and I’m not an expert in this field but just for my own personal like research and experience with all what you’re doing is definitely plenty there’s some info out there with the muscle deterioration over time the sarcopenia but yeah even any like basic routines like that is more than enough to prevent that muscle loss for the most part or at least get you you know eighty percent of the way there which is all that matters for most everything but um yeah those basic workouts are definitely more than enough to kind of combat a lot of that muscle loss it’s when people don’t anything or reps I do way more reps throughout the day now so I might do in one day like 500 reps of one exercise yeah I’ve really dialed back to my workouts because I when I was right after I was losing weight I got really into bodybuilding and then yeah over time as I got busier with all this stuff it just kind of again compelled by the wayside a bit but nowadays I cancelled my gym membership a couple years ago now and and I just do super basic like body weight and resistance band workouts at home you know I keep it super simple like I’m really only doing you know 15-20 minutes and a day but I’ll still usually get that 5 or 6 days a week I must I have some particularly crazy week where I’m having to go out early for jobs but yeah just that super basic work I’ve I you know I’m not at my complete biggest but I’ve been able to keep and maintain most of my muscle mass and definitely you know the weight loss aspects and then being on foot you know it’s easy to get some steps out and it’s been a little or problematic with being at home now I usually try and make an effort to get outside and go for a walk for something everyday but yeah I’ve really dialed back to just a pretty basic quick workout for you know muscles maintenance I think the past like 5 days I felt like 15,000 steps a day but like not most days I’m like not even coming close to like 6 or 7 oh yeah yeah mine um you can always tell like I don’t track that that I’m not very dedicated to my tracking but I’ll check you can always see which days I didn’t leave the apartment so it’ll be like you know thirteen thousand steps 11,000 steps 15,000 and then 2500 steps yep that’s I have the Apple watch so every time like at the end of every day I look at it and like like right now what I got like 60 even though we went out today I didn’t really do much I was just reset but I was at like 6,500 for yesterday yeah so and just cuz all we did was go to the movies and then came home yeah I took a nap for three hours yeah a lot of a lot of nothing but it’s Sunday it’s okay yeah there you go you gotta have some rest timing that’s it’s a good excuse Josh I’ll let you get onto the rest of your Sunday I appreciate you taking the time we’re way over time allotment here so thank you oh yeah no problem always happy to chat guys don’t forget to check out Josh’s channel links will be down in the description or in the show notes if you listen to some podcasts it’s Josh fan also Instagram is still bearded fat loss is it Josh fan no it’s actually Josh fan with no oh the Hat someone else has my name and I asked if they would give it up and they said no but J sh f e and N and there’s links all that on youtube so if you just rush its got links to all of it you’ll find all this stuff but he definitely has some great content and I play said we’ve collabed before but I’ve been following what you’re doing for years now and yeah we’ve been collaborating a little bit and we’re always talking so definitely worth checking out great stuff especially like with the cat business I’m really just interested to see how that that turns out so far like like I said it’s kind of something I fell into and yeah I love it though it’s so much fun yeah I’m very curious to see how it how it pans out too sure you are as well yeah your business alright thank again guys although all the links in the show notes be sure to check that out and I will see you next time