Racist Stereotypes and Cultural Appropriation in American Sports 1

HON KEVIN GOVER, ESQ: Good morning everyone Good morning Thank you all for being here, we want to start right on time because we’re webcasting and we don’t want those folks online to just see a blank screen My name is Kevin Gover, I’m the Director of the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian We want to welcome you to our symposium on Racist Stereotypes and Cultural Appropriation in American Sports We also want to extend a warm welcome to our virtual audience watching the webcast Now in this program we explore the mythology and psychology of sports stereotypes and mascots And that reminds me, if you would be so kind, mute your phones because we are online We examine the retirement of Native American sports references and the efforts to revive them, and we conclude with a spirited community conversation about the name and logo of the Washington, D.C., professional football team I would also like to invite all of you to continue the conversation and enjoy some refreshments at a reception in our Potomac Atrium immediately following this symposium Now most of our visitors whether Native or non-Native come to our museum carrying information, misinformation, ideas, attitudes, and prejudices both negative and positive based on what they have learned about American Indians in the course of their lives Now only a very few of us have devoted extensive study to Native history, art and culture, so most people’s understandings are formed based on the limited information they received primarily from two sources, the formal education system in the United States, and the popular media culture in the United States Now my own experience in contending with the information I was given while growing up as an Indian kid in Oklahoma is instructive, I think Native history and culture was only rarely touched upon while I was in elementary school and junior high I had more than the usual interest in these subjects, but I can recall only the occasional reference to American Indians, almost always accompanied by a photo of Indian people standing on a rocky hillside, dressed in feathers and buckskin I learned nothing about the history of Native people prior to contact with Europeans, save the few pages in my Oklahoma history book dedicated to the spiral mounds, which was an archeological site in Eastern Oklahoma It was as though what pre-existed Columbus’ arrival in the Americas was uninteresting and unimportant Meanwhile, at the movies and on television, the Westerns were thriving Even while knowing these stories were fictional, they wore on me The Indians were semi-naked, monosyllabic, and fierce, quite unlike the many Indians I knew as family and friends The white people on the other hand were smart, industrious, and only reluctant users of violence The racial message was consistent and powerful: Indians were stupid and violent, though oddly noble in their savagery, and white people were civilized, principled, and heroic And this brings us to sports stereotypes and Indian mascots I noticed at a young age that professional football teams in Washington and Kansas City and professional baseball teams in Cleveland and Atlanta used Indian references as their nicknames, and images of spears, war clubs, arrowheads, and the like on their uniforms They used in some cases caricature or stereotyped images of Indian people on their helmets and jerseys Atlanta even had an Indian mascot who would emerge from his tipi to celebrate and dance each homerun by the team This struck me as strange because I noted that no other existing racial group qualified for this role, and that none of the athletes on these teams were actually Indians I also noted the widespread use of Native images and references including mascots as college sports symbols Indeed, the University of Oklahoma had its own Indian mascot, Little Red I spent my junior high years in Norman and of course was a fan of the University’s sport teams When the football team scored a touchdown, Little Red would Indian dance exuberantly for the cheering crowd To its credit, the University of Oklahoma long ago abandoned the Little Red mascot Taken together, the messages my generation received from our formal education and the popular culture were clear: Indians were interesting only in terms of their engagement with non-Indians A good Indian was one who assisted white people in establishing civilization in the American wilderness Native women were especially likely to see the virtues of white civilizers and assist them in their efforts Native men, being violent and dim, resisted civilization ferociously but futilely Above all, perhaps, contemporary Indians were not relevant; Indians were figures of the

past It would be entirely fair for a non-Indian student in, say, Ohio, to conclude that Indians simply ceased to exist This is a powerful set of ideas being delivered over and over They made growing up as an Indian child harder than it had to be As an older student, and as an adult, I made a point of learning more about Native history and culture, and came to understand the enormity of the omissions and misrepresentations about Native people that continue too often unchallenged in the educational system and culture of the United States Now some things have changed Certainly, the mythological heroism of Columbus has been challenged in both popular culture and modern scholarship Most people acknowledge the absurdity of Columbus discovering a world that had been occupied for millennia On the other hand, certain myths persist and are reinforced Disney’s animated Pocahontas celebrates the Indian princess helping white people bring civilization story of old Even the movies in which Indians are heroes too often engage in the old stereotypes The large blue Indians of Avatar and the Indian werewolves of the popular Twilight series may be heroes, but note the spectacular violence of which they are capable Note as well the addition of new stereotypes that evolved in the late 20th century, Indians as pristine environmentalists and even better, magic Indians These characters portray Indians of the past Television, movies, books almost never portray Indians as contemporary characters We are confined to the past as though the government’s policies directed toward the deconstruction of Native nations had succeeded universally The practice of using Native people as mascots largely emerged at the very time government policy was to deliberately destroy Native language, Native religion, and Native identity In this respect, the mascots served very directly the government’s purpose by portraying Indians as proud and noble figures but only figures of the past Government policy in the popular culture assumed that certainly by the end of the 20th century, there would be no more Indians These policies find their roots in the misguided beliefs of the 19th century in racial hierarchy and the ranking of cultures from primitive to civilized It hardly bears noting that the so-called science of race in the 19th century always concluded that white people, Anglo Saxon or Nordic white people in particular, were the pinnacle of human development and their civilizations were the best ever achieved Now this foolishness has long since been discredited as simple racism, as have the policy ideas that arose from it The popular culture, however, has kept alive the vanishing red man stereotype that is at the foundation of the phenomenon of Native mascots The celebrations of our extinction turned out of course to have been premature; however, certain ideas and themes in the popular culture remain persistent and influential Native mascots are primary offenders in perpetuating these stereotypes We are told they are meant to honor Native American qualities such as bravery, strength—physical of course, not mental—endurance, and pride Certainly Native people have and had those qualities in varying degrees, though I see no reason to believe they have or had them in greater quantity than other peoples And why is it that Native people are not chosen to represent positive human qualities such as intelligence, piety, generosity, and love of family? I suppose the answer is that we are far less interesting to mascot makers when revealed to be ordinary human beings with all the virtues and failures of other human beings Now, I’ve just given you sort of a–an intellectual approach to this issue, but in fact, my opinion about this issue was formed a very long time ago when I was about 15 years old And when it comes to this issue, as is true of many others, I am very much my mother’s son When I was 14 or 15 years old, as I said, I lived in Norman, Oklahoma And my mother, Maggie Gover, who was a white woman, happened to work at that time for the president of the University of Oklahoma, Herbert Hollomon, and at that same time, Indian students at the University of Oklahoma were challenging this mascot, Little Red, that danced at the football games I remember my mother writing a letter to Dr Hollomon, her boss, describing what it was like to be an Indian at that time in Oklahoma, where aggressive and open racism against Indians

was not the norm, but it was not unusual either And I was sort of stunned because I knew my mother was white and I knew my father was Indian, but I was stunned to see how well she understood the challenges that Indian people faced And I realized how hard it must have been for her trying to raise three little brown kids in that environment And in that letter she spoke passionately and persuasively to her boss, Dr. Hollomon, asking him to do away with the Little Red mascot Now, I don’t know if that’s why Dr. Hollomon did it I’m sure he had a complex of reasons, but in fact the Little Red mascot was done away with, and I found that story not only important to my development as a child but certainly inspiring as we continue to fight these battles over the use of Native American people as mascots So here at the National Museum of the American Indian, we relish the opportunity to challenge these and other stereotypes I would like to thank our outstanding panelists for coming here today to advance this conversation, in particular the distinguished panel moderators, Dr. Manley Begay, Dr. Suzan Shown Harjo, and Dr. Philip Deloria It’s now my great pleasure to introduce Manley Begay, who will moderate the first panel of the day, “Mascot Origin Myths.” Dr. Begay is Associate Social Scientist/Senior Lecturer in the American Indian Studies Program at the University of Arizona and Co-Director of the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University He is also a man who has thought deeply and taught influentially on the topic we address today Please help me welcome Manley Begay [Applause] DR MANLEY A. BEGAY, JR.: Good morning It certainly is a beautiful day I’m so happy to serve actually two roles, one as a moderator for this particular panel, and I’ve also been asked to give a blessing to open up this particular event I’m Navajo originally from Tuba City and Wheatfields and it’s actually my pleasure to give a prayer this morning, and I ask you to join me in this prayer As a Navajo person, we usually pray no less than two hours, and you can remain seated And I will not be praying in the mic, so and I welcome also those that are on air as well [Prayer] Thank you Mascot Origin Myths is a really interesting topic and we have with us a distinguished panel, and this particular subject matter is a very serious matter When I was a graduate student at Harvard University, I received a call from a teacher from Quincy Public Schools in Quincy, Massachusetts, and he mentioned that there

was a mascot that they had been trying to change for quite some time, but it was very, very difficult for the community and the students and the faculty and also administrators to support this change that needed to occur And interestingly enough, you see this mascot here on the screen, and the story behind this is rather bizarre, laughable at times, but very, very serious There were two Native kids at the school, and the kids clearly were offended by this particular emblem So I was asked to go speak to the school board and also community members and so I went and spoke to the board and also spoke to the community members and I asked, I said, you know, I went through the typical arguments about why this is offensive, and I was continuously reminded that this is not a Native image And I said, “Really?” And they said, “No, this is not Native It’s not an Indian person.” I said, “It sure looks like it Two feathers, a headband, a tomahawk, a breechcloth, moccasins, and…” They said, “No.” I said, “Well, what is it?” And I was informed that well, Mr. Yakoo, is his name, is a depiction of an Armenian dentist I said, “Well, I don’t see a drill I don’t see a mask.” And they said, “Yeah, it’s an Armenian dentist after Dr. Yacubian.” I said, “Okay.” I said, well this is the origin of this particular mascot Apparently Dr. Yacubian, a generous benefactor to Quincy schools, was honored so his facial feature was put on this emblem and it became Mr. Yakoo Mr. Yakoo was born, and to this day North Quincy High School, the Red Raiders, they still have this emblem And I could not convince, for the life of me, the people that I was addressing that this is not an Armenian dentist But you can see that the entrenched feelings, the entrenched understanding of tradition is very, very difficult to change Our panelists here today will address mascot origin myths To my left, Dr. E. Newton Jackson is Associate Provost and Professor of Sports Management, University of North Florida Dr. Jackson actually hails from Washington, D.C Welcome home, Dr. Jackson He’s held various positions in academia, like Associate Dean, Department Chair, Program Director for Sports Management programs and faculty He’s worked at Howard University, Florida A&M University, Grambling University, and Florida State University He has extensive NCAA coaching experience; he has also held the position of Athletic Director He has written articles on the sociocultural aspects of sports to include “Racism in College Athletics”; “Media Relations in Sport”; and “Perpetuating the Wrong Image of Native Americans.” To his left is Dr. C. Richard King, he’s co-author of Team Spirits, Native Athletes in Sport and Society, and Encyclopedia of Native Americans in Sports; and Professor and Chair in the Department of Critical Culture, Gender, and Race Studies at Washington State University Dr. King has written extensively as well on Native imagery in sports and among his writings are “Sports Mascots and the Media”; “Borrowing Power: Racial Metaphors and Pseudo-Indian Mascots”; “On Being a Warrior: Race, Gender and American Indian Imagery in Sports”; and “Defensive Dialogues: Native American Mascots, Anti-Indianism, and Educational Institutions.” To his left is Dr. Ellen Staurowsky She is currently Professor in the Department of Sport Management, Goodwin School of Professional Studies at Drexel University She has served as Graduate Program Chair, Athletic Director, men’s soccer coach–let

me repeat, men’s soccer coach–Dean of Students and a number of other positions Among the places she has worked are Rutgers University, Oberlin College, Colby Sawyer College, William Smith College She has expertise in social justice issues in sport, gender equity in sport, Title IX, and athlete exploitation She has researched and written extensively on the topic that we will discuss today Her writings include: “American Indian Sport Imagery in Sport and Public Imagination”; “Title IX Literacy: What Coaches Don’t Know and Need to Find Out”; and “Hazing.” And she’s also written, with Dr. King, “Of Polls and Race Prejudice.” To her left is Ms. Linda Waggoner, she’s author of Fire Light: The Life of Angel De Cora, Winnebago Artist and “Playing Indian, Dreaming Indian: The Trial of William ‘Lone Star’ Dietz.” She’s a lecturer in multicultural studies at Sonoma State University; she’s also a specialist in Great Lakes Métis history and Winnebago culture and genealogy Her other writings include “Posing Indian: Manifest Manners and the Subversion of William ‘Lone Star’ Dietz”; “The Trial of Lone Star” (which was actually cut from the original manuscript of Fire Light); “Reclaiming James One Star”; and “Neither White Men nor Indians.” We’ll go with my left, Dr. Jackson first, who will give a short presentation and down the line, and then we’ll have a panel discussion about the topic, and then we will open up questions to the audience And again, welcome to this event DR E. NEWTON JACKSON: Thank you Being a member of the Eastern Cherokee, Southern Iroquois, United Tribes of South Carolina, it’s a privilege to join these colleagues and this group today on such a timely topic Timely in the sense that we’ve been discussing it for decades Ironically, some institutions of higher education got the message long ago as we heard–Oklahoma, Stanford, Dartmouth–but a lot of institutions of higher ed, and K-12, have not quite yet accepted the dialogue that there are some issues with race and ethnicity Any time we talk about race and ethnicity, there is such an uncomfortable cloud in the room It doesn’t matter if we’re in the nation’s capital–which, yes, I grew up here and went to high school down the street at Gonzaga–but it’s across the country, it’s uncomfortable It doesn’t matter which ethnic groups we have in the room to talk about it But discussion and dialogue is certainly the way to begin change The problem that I have seen about the Native American mascot images historically is that the learned behavior, we don’t always want to use the term racism, racist, because then it’s defensive, and we’ve got to put up our shield But we have to lay out certain facts, and the more we do that, the more we have the opportunity to hopefully allow our colleagues, our friends, and those that we don’t know an opportunity to see for themselves some of the disparities and I would have to call them lies I wanted to find a nice word, I was going to say untruths, but the lies, you know, I grew up learning Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492–well, you don’t pull up to a place and people are waving and you discovered it It just doesn’t work that way But that’s how many of us in this nation were educated, so it’s hard to change some of these perceptions I was going to begin here with a discussion on symbols because that’s somewhat where we go with images It’s about symbols, how we view things, and it’s always the same, is the glass half full or half empty? It depends upon the eye; it depends upon what we see The same image, but has a different meaning, sadly When we talk about sports and images, somehow this image comes up and denotes different

things to different ethnic groups within the United States still today In South Carolina, it became a debate over their capital but it did not even rise above their capital till 1962, so is it really a tradition? We have a lot of different perceptions, and certainly my colleague to the left will discuss the Cleveland Indians I’m sure a little bit better than I will But I think that the dialogue when we look at calling people a name, Cleveland Africans, and this is just one of many descriptions, depictions that we’ve seen before It used to be the Newark Negros, the Jersey Jews, these are the ones that have been out there historically that I don’t see any more today and I couldn’t find it to show it to you unfortunately It only affects public opinion when it affects the individual Unfortunately, the Native Americans seem to be the least powerful ethnic group in this nation today Great discussion on immigration, I don’t know about all the folks that didn’t use that coming in initially from the Mayflower down but you know, it’s a different perspective I wanted to put this quote from Carole Oglesby who’s a white female by the way, and a noted scholar She talks about “Where is the white in the Rainbow Coalition? And this was in a book from Dana Brooks a few years back, and the irony is that for change to occur, it requires the dominant group to be supportive, encouraging, and participating Civil rights here in this country, we talk about the dreamer and Martin Luther King has a statue down the street if you haven’t seen it, but for those that are not aware, the African-Americans, blacks for that era, did not all agree with Martin Luther King There were those who were like “don’t rock the boat.” It required white people to join in arms–and arms are like locked in arms, not arms, there’s another type–but to participate in the marches, in the boycott and the protest for change to occur It requires the dominant group to buy in, which eventually gets the media support, and exposure to others And this is no different an issue Coming from a sport management position, I see it a little differently about marketing That’s where images come from, the promotional attitude of mascots, whether it’s the Cleveland Indians or the Florida State or the Fighting Sioux or any of these other groups that we’ve talked about, it’s how they market it and how they promoted it Well, I think you have to consider that it’s about revenue today, not historically but today, it’s about revenue And although there’s a good debate about Florida State where I was a faculty member for a number of years and had a great opportunity and loved it, the challenges about the Florida Seminole supporting Florida State University’s push in symbolism is quite unique because I’m not aware that the institution gives them any of the revenue that they have from the apparel sales of all the Seminole distribution that they have We’re talking about for a couple of years they led the nation in athletic apparel sales, so there’s millions of dollars This is a sign that was down there for many years Recently they took the bridge out to have different urban planning going on and reconstruct the traffic flow, but let’s talk about traditions and myths The Florida State Seminoles and the description of bringing Chief Osceola out on a horse they called Renegade and throwing the spear in the ground, and if you’ve watched ABC on TV you’ve seen it certainly That didn’t start till 1978, so how do you talk

about historicalt Where does that start? Once again it’s a promotional activity But this sign here is not a promotional activity And I can’t say when it went up but I can tell you it was there a good 15, 20 years It’s images, it’s not only the language it says, but it’s an image How do we get to the other place where we understand one another a little better? That Native Americans are not a mascot but it’s the tough dialogue that must occur in the schools, among each other I grew up in Washington and I love the national football team here, I don’t call them by that name anymore [Applause] A number of decades ago I participated with the Rainbow Coalition of Fairness in Sport Group and we protested outside RFK stadium and I want to tell you, I was never so embarrassed and hurt that my fellow Washingtonians and Maryland and Virginia folks were so disgraceful, rude, the things they said to us I couldn’t believe it Couldn’t believe it Whites, blacks, and Asians Season ticketholders going in I met with Jack Kent Cooke and a group of other folks to try to convince them to change the name, that there was a revenue stream Ironically his counterpart Abe Pollin who owned the Washington Bullets did and they’re now called the Washington Wizards You could sell all the old apparel and have a whole new revenue stream and make more money It’s about money at the pro level, so I just couldn’t understand why he couldn’t get to it before he died But I’m not going to hold up because we’re going to have a lot of discussion later on I did want to share one last thought here about imagery How does one person tell another that they honor them best? How do you do that? When I’m telling you that what you’re saying and doing does not honor me Keep in mind you will hear the debate that oh, not all Native Americans agree Some Native Americans think that this is that it’s okay to have mascots in such a stereotypical format African-Americans don’t agree on the word N-I-G-G- whatever, there’s some that think it’s a despicable word from generations, there are those that use it with term of affection and endearment today Within groups we’re not going to all agree The issue is that some are offended That’s the issue We don’t agree on anything Four hundred yards from now there’s a bunch of folks that we put up in that big building, and I guarantee you, they don’t agree on anything Thank you [Applause] DR C. RICHARD KING: I want to make sure I stay on time here I have a feeling I could talk for too long on this today First, I want to say a great thanks to the National Museum of the American Indian for bringing us here to have this event today It’s a great honor to be here and I’d like to express gratitude to the activists from Carlos Montezuma through Charlene Teters to many people we don’t know who have raised this issue and have brought it both to the consciousness of scholars and to everyday conversations in the newspaper, and on the street And I should say that I come to this… this project as an alum of the University of Illinois, and really for a great deal of my life I grew up, didn’t think much about mascots I grew up in Kansas City, I was a fan of the professional football team there; my high school played a team called the Indians I swam in this water and really didn’t take much or give much thought to what mascots might have meant It was really only when I was at Illinois that began to think about mascots and really come face-to-face with the anti-Indian racism that they embodied And I was quite hopeful in 2005 when the NCAA banned mascots in the collegiate athletics that hey, perhaps we’ve turned a corner, perhaps some kind of progress has been made, we’re on a new page And I’m here today to tell you we really haven’t turned a corner and the football team in our nation’s capital might be one point of evidence

of that, but I’d like to point to a more local and perhaps less known set of practices which is the efforts to revive Chief Illiniwek at the University of Illinois There have been efforts by student groups, some alumni groups to have alternative homecomings, to bring the Chief back to homecoming parades, and as the t-shirt on the screen indicates, to offer up I guess what they would call playful revivals of the Chief And if you can’t read it, the t-shirt says, that this is the unofficial St. Patrick’s 2010 shirt, it has Chief Illiniwek on the front and he’s got two beer bongs, which reinforces all kinds of negative stereotypes about Native Americans and I would say college students And on the back it says, that Chief Illiniwek, the mascot’s far from dead, he’s just passed the F out, right So, far from us turning a corner, I would say that we really are living in a kind of afterlife And I’m interested really in the afterlife these days of mascots, right, those arguments to revive, to defend, and to make mascots meaningful still Chief Illiniwek emerges in 26, he emerges out of Boy Scouts, out of playing Indian, out of an acceptable tradition of taking and remaking Indianness and this is a picture of the Chief dancing at half-time I suppose they would have said at this moment in time the Chief was about honor, bravery, respect, and reverence While at the same time you could go to a shop near campus and buy Chief Illiniwek toilet paper, as well as Chief Illiniwek on t-shirts And so ultimately, Native American mascots turn as well on a particular kind of dehumanization and a desensitization of the dominant population to that because a tradition that matters, the form of Indianness that matters, is that that they have made It’s a particular kind of possessiveness that really demands preservation and demands narratives and stories to protect it, and this is where I think and why I think origin stories matter so much Origin stories don’t matter really at the beginning, because you’re creating something Origin stories begin to matter when people say, “Hey, that mascot is racist.” “That mascot hurts.” “That mascot is bad.” And people look around and say, “No, this mascot isn’t bad.” And they begin to create narratives, what I would call sincere fictions, to justify the mascot They sincerely believe what they’re saying but what they’re saying is fictional, perhaps we like to say these things are untruths, lies, or myths And the reason that, I’m sorry, here’s the toilet paper, I’m I got a little ahead of myself there Here’s a fan in D.C. who probably thinks very little about the origin stories that circulate when they’re dressed in paint on the sidelines, right Why it’s possible and why it was possible to manufacture mascots, I would argue hinges on a particular kind of misrecognition on the one hand, right? An expectation of what Indians are supposed to be like, and a capacity to invent those or make those images real, right, so much so that actual embodied Native Americans get lost, cannot be seen, and are not understood as equal human beings It also hinges on a very material reality, right, and a consciousness that emerges out of that, right, and reality of dispossession, of displacement, and of death, right And one in which a settler society emerges on the foundation of this and yet would like to forget it As this image suggests, don’t be self- conscious about playing an Indian at your hipster party or half-time, it’s not like you perpetuated any kind of real or symbolic violence against these people, right And ultimately even when we’re being ironic as Diesel is in this ad, right, we’re always stupid when we think it’s okay to play Indian and when we allow Indianness to be appropriated and perpetuated in this fashion, right Now, I would argue that this kind of misrecognition and material condition has bred a kind of

entitlement in white Americans that remains largely unexamined When we talk about origins, right, we are talking about white Americans and what they have done We’re not encouraging white Americans often enough to reflect on what it is that they have done or what kind of practices and consequences they are visiting upon the world, right We instead say, “Well, where did that come from?” “What is it about?” And I would rather say, right, how does that story mean or how does it matter in the world, right Origin stories give their tellers a map of what the world is like, it tells them who they are, it tells them what is moral, what is good Mascot stories in particular resolve contradictions They allow for rather ugly images of Native Americans to persist and people to feel good about themselves creating them and enjoying them And ultimately, I think stories, origin stories let people off the hook If you can say I’m honoring you, right, if you can say that what this is about is honor, if we can say, “Hey, the Cleveland Indians, that’s all about honor.” That’s a kind of reverence that we’re expressing We like Indians, right? You’ve got yourself off the hook, right, and as Dr. Jackson has suggested it’s uncomfortable, it’s hard to talk about race Nobody wants to be the bad guy; nobody wants to be called the racist Well, if I’m honoring you, I can’t be racist, right And so I would argue that we need to spend and pay much more attention to the afterlife of mascots and when they become questioned, right, because one, it tells us and shows us how untenable mascots are, it shows us how vacuous the fictions are and ultimately it tells us a lot about racial politics today which I can say more about later, right And I would encourage us to shift our focus from intention, what do people mean, why did they create that, and begin focusing more on impact, right And focus moreover, to support what Dr Jackson said previously, on how we can engage these images, right How we can engage whiteness, how we can deconstruct the histories we’ve told ourselves, and how we can come to terms of being a settler nation Thank you [Applause] DR ELLEN STAUROWSKY: Good morning everybody Thank you for that I’m really so deeply appreciative of the opportunity to speak here and to have been invited by the National Museum of the American Indian to contribute to this conversation about American Indian imagery as it’s promoted in sport venues and the legacies that it draws from and passes on to future generations and why I think it’s important that we come to grips with the dynamics that go on around these images I would suggest that as a nation we will never come to a place in our understanding about race until such time as we deal with this particular issue I think that the stakes are this high for all of us I very much appreciate what Dr. King is talking about in terms of this notion of an afterlife, especially because of the fact that when we get beyond the surface of the individual stories that we tell about these images, we can start with Cleveland and I’m going to do that in just a minute, one of the things that we begin to see very, very quickly is that they actually are all one and the same So that here we are sitting in Washington with the use of the term Redskins, having to dispute it for over 30 years and longer, and somehow there’s the experience that because this is “our image” that it’s somehow very special and just ours But of course, you know, that imagery was exported from Boston, and you know, there

was the Boston Braves, and of course the Boston Braves in terms of the baseball team moved on to Milwaukee at which eventually became the Atlanta Braves And of course in terms of the practices associated with both the Braves and the Tomahawk Chop then we get something where we see it in Tallahassee So when we begin to look at that surface impression then go deeper we see that it’s all one and the same And I was particularly struck when I saw the image of a North Quincy Armenian Indian, I guess It’s a little puzzling for me, but was very struck, especially having spent a good deal of time looking at the image of Chief Wahoo that if you… and you can join me if you like, but you know, Wahoo, Yakoo, Yawahoo, Yakoo, there’s such an interesting intersection there also–and how kind to have had this image put up on the screen again–when you look at the Indian’s image here, and remember the North Quincy image, they’re almost identical So I think we really are up against this fabric of narratives that obscure the racial dynamics that are underneath them In 1992, Native American scholar and author Michael Dorris wrote about these images that “they serve as opaque curtains, solid walls of white noise.” And in a classroom in Ithaca, New York, I ran smack dab into that curtain when my students engaged in a debate about the appropriateness of franchises using American Indian imagery during the “politically incorrect” World Series which featured the Braves and the Indians And one of the students, after I allowed this conversation to go on for quite a while, and I didn’t have a position on it, I had grown up being a Methacton Warrior myself, had not reflected on these things at all, and a student in the back of the room raised his hand and he said, well, of course the reason why the team is named for Louis, or named the Indians, is because of Louis Francis Sockalexis, so the first American Indian in professional baseball And so he contested our discussion saying, well, why are we talking about this? This is such a notable figure and such a benign gesture, why would we ever contest it? And you know, thus began this journey into unpacking the mythology associated with both the story, the way in which a story was manipulated by the franchise to get us to believe what they wanted us to believe And in the meantime, much of the history behind Louis Francis Sockalexis is also obscured For example, the franchise states that its position is to honor Louis Francis Sockalexis but it neglects to share with those people who believe that the way in which Sockalexis was characterized in the sports pages was, in one particular news account as “redskin” I think salient in terms of here, and within the context of needing to be subdued, similar to the first scalp for Custer, and these kinds of reminiscences circulate throughout the time that Louis Francis Sockalexis is playing in the 1890s And I’m reasonably sure that the fans of the Cleveland franchise are never educated about this particular history And to me this is the this brings us back to why it’s so important that we challenge these images because if as an entire nation, if we know far more about our American Indian image mythologies than we do about white-American Indian history

then these images are doing exactly what they’re supposed to do, which is miseducate the entire populace so that we do not have to be accountable for what has gone on in the past, and we can also allow for the continuing marginalization of American Indians as an entire group So I think that as we continue our conversation today, that there is much at stake for us to unlock this puzzle, to continue to challenge it, and ultimately to prevail So I’ll close with that and then hopefully we’ll have a lively discussion Thank you [Applause] MS LINDA M. WAGGONER: First I want to thank the museum, the American Indian Museum for inviting is but I also want to put a special thanks to Elizabeth Kennedy Gische, for taking care of all the arrangements and especially to my heroine, Suzan Shown Harjo for putting this together; she’s been amazing Okay I’m going to start with the past and kind of the beginning, near the beginning of this whole mess really Sports historian, William J. Ryczek writes that in 1961, the Washington Football Club owned by the reactionary George Preston Marshall was the last in the NFL without “a single black player on the roster.” So that’s 1961 In protest that year, the NAACP led a boycott against the team joined by Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, who nonetheless did not feel “he had sufficient legal standing to bar the team from its stadium.” Obviously, this story is significant to our discussion, but what caught my attention was Ryczek’s observation, “Ironically Marshall had been a racial pioneer of sorts, hiring a full-blooded Native American, Will “Lone Star” Dietz as coach of his Boston Braves in 1933.” That’s not pioneering, I thought Native men had long been playing football Pennsylvania’s famous Carlisle famous Indian school team who called themselves the Red Men were wildly popular in the late 19th and earliest 20th centuries The teams whose best known coach was Pop Warner began competing with Ivy League schools well before Jim Thorpe and his friend, Lone Star Dietz, joined the team Carlisle closed in 1918, so Marshall hired the showman Dietz to replace Coach Lud Wray in the spring of 1933, hoping to cash in on Indian football nostalgia As a nod to Carlisle, they, and I don’t know which one, but both Marshall and Dietz created a new name for the Boston Braves, one already in the sports writer’s lexicon They dropped Men and replaced it with Skins Today, Pro Football Inc. claims that this slick marketing ploy was to honor Lone Star Dietz Newspapers of the day, however, did not mention Marshall’s homage to his Native American coach Instead they listed Dietz’s career accomplishments, “Dietz assumed charge of the Redskins after a series of triumphs on the collegiate gridiron He received his early football education under Glenn S. Pop Warner, at Carlisle Institute, and has coached successfully at Carlisle, Washington State, Mare Island Marines, Perdue, Louisiana Polytechnic, Wyoming University, Stanford, Los Angeles Town Club and Haskell Institute.” Dietz’s tenure at Haskell, an Indian school in Kansas, allowed him to recruit Native players for Marshall who were then directed to apply war paint to their faces while they played football After complaints that the war paint clogged their pores, and a disappointing second season, Marshall dumped his Indian coach, honored or not

Still Lone Star Dietz has continued to play mascot for Washington Football Club He was also inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame this year in May as a coach And mascot comes closest to describing the nearly full-blooded if not full-blooded, German, but he was a dramatic fellow who wanted to play football, and he wanted to play at Carlisle where it was, as Sally Jenkins reminds us, the all-American spectacle sport So he took on the identity of a missing Oglala man, or Sioux, born at Pine Ridge named James One Star He enrolled at Carlisle in 1907, probably illegally recruited by Pop Warner, and three months later at 23, he married Carlisle’s head of the art department, Angel DeCora, a Ho-Chunk or a commonly Winnebago, woman who was 14 years his senior In June of 1919, Dietz, after DeCora had died, and they had actually–he divorced DeCora in November of 1918 because he had gone on to Pullman to coach football and she did not follow him, so he divorced her in November On February 1st he was indicted, and on February 6th, she died, so I never knew, because I wrote a biography about her, I never knew if she knew about his real identity But in June of 1919 Dietz was on trial in Spokane, Washington, for draft evasion The federal government filed two counts against him The first alleging that he falsely registered as a “non-citizen Indian of the United States.” The second charged he made “false statements as to the fitness and liability of himself for military service,” all while he was coaching the Mare Island Marines The prosecution intended to prove Dietz was born of white parents at Rice Lake, Wisconsin; had not assumed the role of an Indian until he entered the Carlisle Indian School (although he had assumed the identity a couple of years before); and that once he learned of the existence of One Star, he began to impersonate him and assumed his name So this is One Star, James, the real James One Star’s enrollment form or descriptive historical record from Carlisle Indian School where he went in 1889, until 1892, and then in 1894 he enlisted in the Army and served at Mount Vernon Barracks where Geronimo was–he was actually part of a troop enlisted to ironically guard Geronimo–and then he was dishonorably discharged from the Army in 1894 and disappeared entirely The year he disappeared, Dietz was 10 years old An FBI investigation begun in December of 1918 proved Dietz was posing The prosecution proved Dietz was not James One Star… that was not James One Star who was the brother of a woman named Sally Eagle Horse who at the time was 58 and was living on the Pine Ridge Reservation with her husband, and that Dietz begun–had begun a correspondence with Sally in 1912 by representing himself as her brother The judge instructed the jury to determine not what was true, however, but what they thought Dietz believed about himself Thus they did not reach a verdict, and Dietz was re-indicted, he pleaded no contest and was sent to jail for 30 days in January, 1920 Often you will see information about Dietz on the Internet that’s incorrect, saying his identity was contested because people think that the jury was hung because he was or was not Indian rather than that they were hung because they couldn’t determine whether or not he believed he was Indian Infamy was better than neglect, however, as Dietz told one newspaper reporter in 1916, “I’m like Lillian Russell, I don’t care what they say about me as long as they say something.” Eventually, his trial was forgotten and though Dietz’s

relationship with Sally was over, he continued to promote–and promote is a really good word and it goes with what we were talking about before–his phony Sioux identity for the rest of his life And in fact his headstone says he was born in South Dakota, and he was born in Wisconsin, and calls himself Lone Star This is the real James One Star who is also pictured in a Carlisle Indian picture… a Carlisle group of boys from Pine Ridge Let’s see And then last, I just want to say, sorry, this is Dietz was an artist, and so he’s painting Louis Weller of the Kansas team of I’m spacing out right now, the school, say MALE VOICE: Haskell MS WAGGONER: Okay And what’s interesting is that Louis is wearing Dietz’s outfit, and I’m going to call it an outfit rather than regalia because it’s not really regalia So he’s, Louis was one of the people he recruited to play for the Boston Braves, the Boston Redskins Alan Trachtenberg of Yale University poses a question crucial to the Dietz case: “How did it happen that dreaming Indian, playing Indian in fantasy and imagination became a way of dreaming American, imagining oneself a member of the nation?” Before the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act, although native to a place called America, American Indians were not considered native to the nation.” Of course Trachtenberg builds on Philip Deloria’s important work on how playing Indian seem to relieve the burden of modernity As Deloria explains, “primitives imagined as being in close contact with nature were thought to be able to mime the natural world more accurately than moderns.” And Trachtenberg adds, “by an ironic semantic twist, by the end of the 19th century, the same Euro- Americans who had once viewed American Indians as alien savages came to embrace them as the true, the natural, the first Americans, icons of the nation and its territory.” As they both concur, playing and dreaming Indian fulfilled modern Americans’ longing to go native America’s desire to go native arose in tandem with the notion that American Indians were headed to extinction The vanishing Indian myth obfuscated the existence of still living American Indians still suffering from the effects of America’s devotion to its equally mythological manifest destiny The Great Sioux War of 1876 to 1877 which led to the Ghost Dance movement and the devastating massacre at Wounded Knee on December 29th, 1890, produced iconic first Americans such as Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull The legacy of these warriors and their portrayal in mass media greatly influenced Dietz’s generation, but as long as he plays Indian mascot, their spirits are terribly dishonored Thank you [Applause] DR BEGAY: Thank you Wow We are going to have a discussion here about the presentations that just took place, and then a little while later we will have questions from the audience There are microphones in the back that we’d like you to use if you have a question I’m just thinking as the panelist were talking, and the question that Dr King raised about we haven’t turned a corner yet, you know, sparked a thought in my mind, and I’m wondering why, you know, why, why is that the case? I have a colleague, Professor Fryberg, Stephanie Fryberg at University of Arizona, who’s done a lot of good work with her colleagues around the psychological effects of mascots on young American Indians and today, the highest suicide rate is with young

American Indians And she’s done work around the effects of mascots on self-esteem, personal- and community-worth She’s found that the negative stereotype and imagery has detrimental effect on young American Indians, and as we all know, that suicide often occurs because of a lack of positive self-esteem And it’s really quite interesting, her work is proof and evidence that mascots can be quite harmful And I’m wondering, back to this question that Dr. King raises, you know, we haven’t turned a corner yet and I wondered why So I’m going to throw this out to the panelists DR KING: I guess since I raised the question I have an obligation to try to answer it I think I would point to two or three things I mean first I would say that I think in general we as a nation or society believe we’ve made a lot more progress on race and racism than we’ve actually made I think that we found new ways of talking about race while… that allow us to perpetuate racism, so we no longer use ugly overt stereotypes, outside of the context of mascots perhaps, yet social stratification is as bad or worse along the lines of race than it was 40 or 50 years ago, right, which is a very disturbing pattern to note So I think that one, is this kind of disconnect between signs and structures and the kind of perhaps social work that they do for us The second I think has to do with the fact that this set of mythologies, as Ellen suggested, is so central to what it means to be American, what our nation means and how we understand our past and future that we’ve been unwilling or unable to really untie them and to begin to make sense of them And I would say that the primary reason that both of these other two features have persisted, that underscores or undergirds all of this has to do with white privilege and with whiteness, and with the unwillingness or the inability of whites to really come to terms or begin to just ask very basic questions about their history, about race and power And the ease with which perhaps they’ve been able to flee many of these conversations, hide behind gated communities and hide behind origin myths I mean those are the three things that I would point to, none of which perhaps are particularly suggestive of good ways out DR BEGAY: Ellen DR STAUROWSKY: Yeah, happy to take my shot, a swing at it, since this is sports It occurs to me that these images are reinforced by institutional authorities and power They are encoded on schools, they’re embedded within the educational system, the media perpetuates them and their coverage somewhat uncritically And so they’re I think part of this dilemma of challenging them stems from the fact that we have these powerful institutional authorities that are giving full permission to engage in casual racism, to, on a day-to-day basis, literally take from the American Indian community in grand tradition You know, you take land and then you take you take culture, and… but I think you know, when we allow people to sort of talk about individual images without understanding that underlying piece, I think it becomes more difficult to interrupt them The other thing that I think we do really have to think about especially from an educational perspective is what the educational imperatives are that we share as educators in interrupting

the dynamics of what’s going on The notion that, oh goodness, I’ll get in trouble for this I’m sure, but the notion that we can have an image like the horse Renegade riding out into a football arena, taking a spear, throwing that spear directly into the head of the honored, directly into the head of Chief Osceola every time is something that must be challenged It cannot go without comment and opposition, and you can put whatever kind of window dressing you want on it, but it is as reprehensible of an act as anything that we will find in America And so I think for educators, they really have to rethink what they’re allowing to go on as part of our fun and games DR BEGAY: Dr. Jackson DR JACKSON: I think there’s been some… you have to look at the bright side remember, you have to keep giving some positive reinforcement or else the dialogue dies quickly And there has been change, of course, 19–what are we saying–1970 for Dartmouth and Stanford is a long time ago for some, but not so long for others There have been institutions to make informed decisions Of course alumni and some supporters are not always pleased I am more disturbed with Dr. King saying that those trying to, you know, I guess in the current state with vampire movies and everything, we’re coming back from the dead We’re going to bring the… bring Illinois back again, here they’re fighting Illini and they’re not giving up That’s horrible That’s horrible So there is some progress but we haven’t gotten to where we need to be But that says a lot about social justice as a whole DR BEGAY: Linda MS WAGGONER: Well, I believe that this comes back again to the question of being American and what is it to be American, and how that shaping American identity has always been, at least say since 1798, tied in with the identity or the assumed identity of Native American people Being American in order to separate from Britain, one of the things Americans did in literature and in other… besides, before sports even, is they identified themselves as Indian characters They wrote books about Indian characters, they made up stories about Indian characters, and it’s very deeply engrained in our psyche I think Even if you took it out of the sports realm, where it kind of, it went crazy, it’s still in literature, it’s still in Halloween costumes and Disney films I mean it’s kind of like putting the mirror back on ourselves and saying, why is it that American identity is so intimately tied with a notion that we have this Native American side to ourselves, this primitive side to ourselves, why do we want to identify with that And that’s I guess I like DR BEGAY: You know when I gave a talk to the board, school board at North Quincy High School, there was a lady sitting next to me and as I was standing there, she grabbed my shirt like this and she says, please don’t take our Yakoo She was crying It was as though if Yakoo was eliminated from North Quincy High School, she would cease to exist And I’m wondering, you know we talk about mascot origins and I’m wondering why Why is it that there’s this entrenched feeling that we have to hold onto these mascots otherwise we cease to exist, and I’m just kind of Dr. King DR KING: Well, I actually, if I had more time I might have told a story today about my own grandmother who went to a high school that was the Indians, and after I got into this research we had a long conversation in which she was crying about what the mascot meant to her and what it meant for me to be doing this work and wondering why it was everyone, I think she used the word, hated her Why do they hate us so, why do they want to take this from us? And I think that this experiential affective element of mascots and of playing Indians explains one reason why people don’t want to give them up

I mean it’s part of their identity, it’s part of their life experience, it’s part of how they know themselves, it’s part of how they know their region and to… it’s not simply sort of like, oh, let’s just choose a new mascot It’s a whole set of other things that are entangled with who they are that they consciously or unconsciously will have to sacrifice and have to work through that I think underlies those kind of reactions DR BEGAY: Dr. Jackson DR JACKSON: When we talk about the savagery, you know, that’s… it’s the tenacity and that’s the emotion we want to attribute to the mascots or those that are using them When you bring up Chief Osceola you know, folks don’t really know the history– half Black, never rode a horse–they were running, they were hiding in the Everglades, they didn’t want to be relocated, and the irony is that when he made peace or attempted to make peace with the United States Government, the Army, they captured him under white truce, captured him, and then beheaded him, and the commanding officer kept the head to give to his child Now I’m trying to get who’s the savage? I just have a hard time understanding how we portray the historical facts And then we distort it a little bit to try to make it once again a promotional and exciting thing with the flame and the spear and you know, pomp and circumstance, fireworks, but what do we constantly pass on to the next generation? I’m glad to see that there’s some young folks here today that will have the opportunity to hear the descriptions But it’s certainly not what we see in Disney all the time and… or read The images are wonderful and flowery, but America’s not that way all the time Are we? MALE VOICE: Back here DR BEGAY: Just one second, Ellen DR STAUROWSKY: You mentioned before the research by Stephanie Fryberg, and I think that that research does give us some insight into why we hold onto manufactured Indian identity the way that we do from the standpoint that her research reveals that for non-Indians, they receive a boost to their self-esteem, so while American Indian children may be suffering the consequences of a hit to their self-esteem that white’s actually experience a boost to it, and when we put that into the calculation of such strong formative experiences, playing cowboys and Indians, favorite Indian stories when we were children, what happens does in high school I think to chip away at that and to fundamentally have people acknowledge that this is racist, to actually acknowledge that is something that it’s a place where they do not want to go And I do agree with Newton that we have to figure out a way to get them to that space without shutting down conversation, but it’s a space where they just do not want to go DR BEGAY: Linda MS WAGGONER: I’m thinking of what you said Ellen about it at bottom it’s one and the same I think that just as a teacher, one of the things is to show students how these stories are completely interchangeable, just get every single, you know, because I had–we had the Indians when I was in… was at the high school was the Indians and junior high was the warriors and just show them when they–if they think this is some kind of special link that they have to this mascot that this is–it’s the only one ever, part of it is that people are pretty insular about what they know about what’s going on in the country And I mean I think just showing the reproduction of all of these images, one on top of the other, and how–and then side by side perhaps showing the real history like you’re talking about, I think it would dawn on people eventually that there’s something funny about that that really isn’t special, that there’s something deeper that’s going on here that has nothing to do with your special team And I think in teams, I’m almost thinking of the

notion of the clan, you know, that your mascot is your clan because you don’t have a clan so you can identify with this mascot or this team, I really think the more people know, the more they would let go of it If you didn’t just focus on your one region, you know DR BEGAY: Great, thank you MALE VOICE 1: Dr. Begay, I used to live in— DR BEGAY: [interposing] We’ll take questions from the audience MALE VOICE 1: Dr. Begay, I used to live in Page, Arizona, which is a major commercial center for the Navajo nation, worked with many Diné people and the National Park Service, now I’m in Montgomery County, our local high school, Sherwood High School, are the warriors, but so is the high school in your hometown of Tuba City In the Navajo capital of Window Rock, their football team’s the Fighting Scouts If people say we want to hold onto the Redskins, the Braves, the Indians, the Chiefs, the Golden State Warriors, is it then all right for Diné to hold onto the Fighting Scouts and the Warriors? Was that… that something that also should be given up? DR BEGAY: That’s a very good question and here’s my perspective and my thought Native people have been colonized, colonized, colonized, and we’re barely coming out of this colonized state in many respects And mascots take historical root, many of these mascots, as the panelists have said, have roots back into the ‘30s and the ‘20s, in particular even the boarding schools The boarding schools have Indians, Carlisle Boarding School and many of these schools on different reservations including the Navajo Nation have adopted these mascots from back in ‘30s and ‘40s and ‘50s and often under some false pretence as well And I think that there’s a lot of work that needs to be done toward decolonization, and it is not appropriate in my mind to see this occurring at any school whether it’s Native or non-Native [Applause] MALE VOICE 1: Dr. King talks a lot about Dr. King is talking a lot about whiteness, about white guilt I would ask Dr. Jackson what about African-American fans of the Redskins of whom there are hundreds and thousands What does that… what does that mascot represent do you think to African-Americans in Washington? DR JACKSON: I think the same thing to the misinformed white folks As I indicated before, when I protested RFK years ago, there were African-Americans that were just as rude and vile as the counterparts Education is the key but it’s a reinforced education, and I think the comment that Linda made a minute ago that we have to keep putting everything out there for them on both sides of the screen so everyone can understand better what they don’t really understand We’re caught up in a love of a sport and a team, team loyalty, brand loyalty, whatever you want to call it in the marketing world, but the reality is there’s some sidebar impacts that individuals don’t understand MALE VOICE 1: Thank you DR JACKSON: They don’t care DR BEGAY: Okay Another question? MALE VOICE 2: It’s a tough audience, Dr Begay I’d like to address this question to you Like Dr. Jackson, beginning in 1992, which was the last great season of the Washington football team, and also the 500th anniversary of Columbus’s beginning of the plunder, Native American groups began picketing every single game at RFK stadium I attended every one of those home games and witnessed as Dr. Jackson said the abuse that was heaped upon the Native demonstrators, and I was a reporter, and at that same time Suzan Shown Harjo and others launched the lawsuit before the Patent and Trademark Board which was eventually successful in outlawing the racist name, which was eventually overturned But as Dr. Jackson points out when he mentioned, so I’m familiar with this history and have written about it often and totally embraced the rejection of the racist name We wouldn’t call them the coons, we wouldn’t call them the jiggaboos, and so why should we call them the Redskins but— [Applause] MALE VOICE: Or nigga

MALE VOICE: Or niggers MALE VOICE 2: So Dr. Begay, I’d like to ask this question, which when Dr. Jackson pointed out the history of Osceola as half African, just in 2012 there was a massive disenfranchisement When I mentioned this point to my colleagues and friends, they say, well, why are you expecting black people to support this Native cause when in 2012 there was a massive disenfranchisement, a vote by I think it was the Sioux nation to disenfranchise the black Indians and say, you’re no longer Indians FEMALE VOICE: Cherokee MALE VOICE 2: The Cherokee Thank you So how do you justify recruiting the support of African- Americans like myself or how do I defend support for this cause when African-Americans say, well, they disenfranchised us lock, stock, and barrel after hundreds of years–after decades of being thought of, thinking themselves as Indians, how do you correct that imbalance? MS WAGGONER: Wow DR BEGAY: Any Cherokees out there? [Laughter] DR BEGAY: I want to throw it to you Well, this is the way I would answer that question It’s actually a very good question Native nations in its entirety exists on the fundamental principle that we’re sovereign entities, we’re sovereign, we’re sovereign nations, politically it’s embedded, deeply embedded in the constitution of the United States, which specifically recognizes at least three sovereigns, the Federal Government, State Governments and Indian nations And each nation has their right to determine who should be a citizen and who should not And each nation within its boundaries determines how they should run their affairs It’s… it would not be appropriate for me to comment on what is going on in Cherokee nation in terms of their sovereign status I have an opinion, it might not necessarily be what Cherokee people would like to hear, but really what’s happening at the Cherokee nation is up to the Cherokee people including those that have been disenfranchised And there are–we live under the rule of law, we live under these circumstances and that’s something that will need to be addressed through the institutions that have been set up at the Cherokee nation It has not been resolved yet, it has not been resolved yet, so we’re going to see how this gets played out, so it’s very, very interesting The other question that sort of was embedded in the larger statement is around why should we support one another It’s really quite interesting We’re in this together We’re a human family We are who we are, five finger people, and the United States is based on a set of laws and rules and regulations, in particular democracy, justice, and so forth I was one of the seven litigants, with Suzan Shown Harjo, to I guess Pro-Football, Inc., and we went through 17 years of this fight We did not lose on a technicality; we were paused on a technicality There’s a younger group coming up where laiches will not be attached to them, and let’s see if the United States is up for justice, let’s see Let’s see what these younger folks will achieve So I’m looking forward to that day And it also reminds me that as a young man, I would go into a store, I would walk down the street, in particular in the border towns Wouldn’t you know it, I would be called a dirty Redskin Stinking red nigger, and it still is with me, those words It’s very, very hurtful

And when hurtful comments are made like that, and you hear and see in sports entertainment those words being celebrated as though it’s the next best thing since sliced bread, you question the intent of these people And sports entertainment, as Dr. Jackson was saying, it’s really about money It’s really about money So if you hit them where it hurts, I think change can occur, and I’m looking forward to that day when the younger folks that are bringing up the case comes before the court I think it will be a good day Any answers to the questions that were posed? Another question, please FEMALE VOICE 1: Yes, good morning My name is Asantra Encrumaturay [phonetic], and like some of the previous speakers said, I too used to be at the old RFK stadium protesting with my Native American brothers and sisters regarding the racist name of the Washington football team, and I share some of their same concerns because fast forward from then to now I find myself cringing about how some of my own people, people of African descent, engage in stereotypes not only against Native Americans but against Palestinians, Latinos, only some of whom are immigrants, etc So I’m wondering from the panel just how far along are we on a broad multiracial understanding of the seriousness of this issue And let me just share a quick personal story Many African people in this country also have Native Americans in our family trees So for me to struggle with another person of African descent about this issue makes no sense to me, you know, I go to their family tree, I see their great-grandmother and their great-grandfather are Native American My great-grandparents were Native American, so why among people of African descent are we also having this kind of discussion? Thank you very much [Applause] DR BEGAY: Thank you Panelists? DR JACKSON: Bad behavior is bad behavior I mean there’s just no way to cut around it It’s learned behavior— [Applause] DR JACKSON: —is where we’ve gotten all of these stereotypes historically for all groups, and social justice is trying to make a change and of course down the street as I said before the Capitol we have some that don’t want to change and some that do I mean we have to understand that we have people that live two lives I saw that Strom Thurmond’s black daughter died, in the Washington Post the other day, you know, he didn’t admit to that forever I mean if you know your history, you know the type of people we’re talking about that we elect and allow us to lead us But we should not have divisiveness among any groups Strength is in power, it’s about understanding, it’s about education, and we’re going to always have a dissenting person or group of people that disagree within every ethnic group about every topic But we have to have the dialogue, we have to continue to not shout, not point fingers, not use the derogatory terms We have to have better efforts at educating one another DR KING: And if I could just add, I think that it’s important to recognize that race is not just an axis of identity, it’s long been and axis of division and a means of exclusion And if we think about some of the core messages that the panel are communicating, social citizenship and political citizenship in the United States often have linked whiteness and citizenship, and I think that until we can decouple those, and we can encourage some kind of, something beyond essentialized racial identities and coalitions, I worry about getting to that place where we say where’s the white in a rainbow coalition And I would say that it’s really this, in some ways, this issue of white supremacy that’s driving that, but that would be my take DR STAUROWSKY: Even broadening the question a little bit more, I think we’re entering a really complicated time, you know, our view as a society is now global, aided and abetted by multi areas of media During the World Cup in South Africa, you know, it was interesting to me to look into

the stands and to see a fan of the Netherlands who had his face painted and he was blue and orange, and he was wearing a headdress, he was wearing an orange and blue headdress So here we have this Netherlands fan who’s dressed like an Indian, who shows up in South Africa, we’ve gone global But… so I think that’s the challenge in terms of coming to grips with what, you know, the casual stereotyping that becomes such a part of cultural currency That’s part of what we’re trying to deal with here So I’ll leave it there MS WAGGONER: One of the things that I would question is the notion of progress, and I think it has been questioned by a lot of people because it also… it’s comparable to the idea that they’re savages and what’s next, barbarians, and the civilized who have this destiny that we’re going to somehow rise to some better place I think we need to sort of just teach people these things and not worry about that, oh, how far have we come, now Obama’s in office, how far have we come? Well, we’re still people, and we still have the same problems we’ve always had, so it’s really not a matter of when are we going to get there and all be in the rainbow or not, but that it is an everyday challenge to talk about these things that you know, if they go away that’s great, but that we’re going to reach some place where we’re more ahead of the people that were behind us is maybe a myth, too DR BEGAY: Another question? FEMALE VOICE 2: Dr. King, you were talking about universities and the mascots and how a lot of universities have made progress in changing those But I think that one issue that we need to focus on is K-12 education For instance, I attended school in Fremont, the Deaf School in Fremont in California, and we had a statue on campus that showed a bear and an Indian having a fight And of course these are negative images that we don’t want to keep portraying in our society, but of course children are seeing these, people who are impressionable Of course this has an impact on young Indian children as you were talking about and that perpetuates those stereotypes So my question is, how can we start to focus on K-12 and perhaps make those, some of those changes at an earlier age? [Applause] DR KING: I think that I would agree that pro sports and college athletics get a lot of the attention because that’s where the money is, but probably you’re correct that K-12 is where we need to be directing a lot of our energies And I would argue moreover that we need to be directing our energies to popular forms of education such as the media, Disney, for example, was brought up A lot of students have a sort of unwritten curriculum that they bring with them into the classroom already, that then gets built upon with, and this kind of miseducation that Ellen spoke about before So I think you’re exactly right, and I think that those are some of the hardest and most impressive struggles over the last 45 or 50 years is at the K-12 level DR BEGAY: Another question MALE VOICE 3: I’ll try to make this one short I got a lot of things going on in my head First, just to give a little bit of background, I’m Peruvian, my father’s of Quechua descent and my mother is Bostonian, actually from Swanum [phonetic], right next to Quincy, so I’m aware of both relationships I grew up, the only sibling in my family that actually looked like a white American, so most Native Americans here look actually like my family So growing up I was on the opposite side of the crone [phonetic] because I grew up in Peru, with everybody I was walking up to me and asking me for a dollar or calling me gringo So I always had to prove that I was I was based So this was where my interest came when I came to the States Now looking at a little bit from the outside in, because the Native American experience here is a little bit different than the Native American’s experience in Latin America, but one thing that I noticed from the get-go here was that there was a

very much a “me against them” situation between whites and minorities And the problem as Mr. Jackson presented was unless you engage the majority, lots of these problems are not going to get solved And lots of times when I see these types of discussions, we see like-minded people including the white people in the population, discussing the same things over and over, but there isn’t some way of attacking the grassroots, the lowest common denominator, the average person isn’t that smart So when you’re trying to engage them, you have to talk in levels that make sense to them So my question is, how do you fill in the vacuum once you remove certain things from them, because for example, when we say, okay, but we don’t want you to have a Native American mascot, but we have Viking mascots, we have other mascots from other tribes in the world that are warriors and stuff like that, but we never explain it in terms of okay, let’s look at the difference While you might have a Viking here, you also have the media constantly showing that there are white doctors, white lawyers, white all these other things So an icon cannot… can be warrior or primitive or whatever you want to call it, and not be negative if you’ve got that positive reinforcement on the other side Because if we just take away the icon, that’s not really the problem because not everybody would think that white people are Vikings, well, some people do, you know That they’re all warriors trying to kill everybody, but that’s… but you have to have that positive reinforcement The other thing that–I’m a lawyer too, so one of my concerns is lots of times the shotgun approach of trying to shoot every single thing that we see as bad which in certain ways is bad, you know, but every single Native American icon off the board, and the problem is while that would be ideally the best thing to do, how do we achieve that if for example when it goes to the Supreme Court, they use things like okay, the Fighting Sioux or something is bad Well then they argue well then, let’s compare it to the Vikings But that makes it so we can’t remove stuff like the Redskins, we don’t have the pale faces, we don’t have the slant eyes, because those are racial terms, not just a job like the Braves or something like that because you can’t have warrior So what I’m saying is, how do you attack this by also engaging the majority, and when we’re saying, let’s take these icons out, what are you going to do to fill in the vacuum because when you’re trying to address this, you are trying to reach the local animal, the guy who’s the beer belly, that doesn’t mind, you know, and he’s there doing the Tomahawk and stuff You have to fill that vacuum up because he does, he’s watching his football game and he’s trying to think of, oh yeah, how tough we are and let’s chug some beers, and we need some icon that says that we’re tough So as an intellectual we can discuss all of why these things are wrong, but we also have to discuss what are we going to do to fill the vacuum if we’re telling them that they’ve got to remove them [Applause] DR BEGAY: Ellen DR STAUROWSKY: I’ll take a little bit of a shot at that one In a previous life I was a Director of Athletics and I’m always interested in the way these conversations go relative to facilities, to the cause, to replacement of uniforms, and so forth, because athletic folk if nothing else really like new uniforms They like to have things repainted, you know, so it’s so interesting to me because in any other circumstance, they would be lining up saying, me So it is interesting that we get into this, but all kidding aside though, I think that that is a place within the athletic community where you can go and where you can demonstrably show in terms of marketing that by changing the look of uniforms, by changing colors, that there’s actually financial gain rather than a loss when you do that So I think in terms of filling that vacuum once you get rid of a certain image, from a business perspective there are all kinds of reasons why it might actually represent a gain rather a loss, and I think that information could be shared in

a way that might help the corporate people move further down the path of doing this more quickly I think educationally, we have a couple of things going on Some of you may be familiar with the work of Barbara Munson Barbara has been working for years and years in terms of working with K-12 schools and children in dealing with these issues and there’s a whole curriculum that she has to help fill that gap I think we have two other ways that we can do this, I think we fill the gap with a legitimate American Indian curriculum, an appropriate curriculum for schools and then we just talk through the fact that there are… teams can be named all kinds of things, so I’ll just end it there DR BEGAY: Another question? MALE VOICE 3: Just a little added to it The other thing that I’ve, again coming from the Latino side, whenever I go to a powwow or I have traveled in the West and I’ve met Native Americans, American Indians, the thing that’s blatantly obvious is that when I see faces like Navajo, they’re the same faces of what 90% of us call Latino And when we are trying to engage the majority, or one of the majority populations of this country is Native American, the only thing is we’ve basically eliminated the identity of the Spanish-speaking Latin American population, one, because in the early times the Chicano population in the U.S., which was predominantly of European descent, but they did have some Native American ancestry too During the Jim Crow era, and it actually is one of the predecessors of Brown versus Board of Education, they actually litigated in California to be classified as white Well, what’s happened now is that you have people of obvious Native American ancestry, obvious African descent, that are classified as white And they do not identify it and no overtures has been done to identify this Mestizo population because Native American populations are pretty much–yeah, but how could we engage that majority to make it into a larger issue? DR BEGAY: Question? FEMALE VOICE 3: Yes I am a senior at Washington High School and I’m in a social anthropology class and we’ve been discussing this a lot, sorry, we’ve been discussing this issue a lot and we were talking about the Irish stereotypes of the fighting Irish and the Boston Celtics and the previous man was talking a little bit about this, and how they are different than the American Indian mascots Can you explain why and does that mean that these mascots are still not racist? DR JACKSON: Can you tell me first? FEMALE VOICE 3: Well, I mean they’re the Boston Celtics mascot is a leprechaun which can be considered racist, so he was talking previously about how there are symbols of successful Irishmen, don’t you think that we should spread this issue to all races not just American Indian mascots? DR JACKSON: Well, leprechauns don’t really exist [Laughter] FEMALE VOICE 3: I know they don’t [Applause] FEMALE VOICE 3: I know they don’t, but DR JACKSON: I don’t mean to I’m not teasing you, I just trying to be clear that we understand one another I’m with you, I think it should cross boundaries and ethnicities and groups, but when that debate is brought forward which it is, not just in your classroom, but other places, leprechauns don’t exist FEMALE VOICE 2: I know DR JACKSON: They’re not part of this debate They are part of the debate, but not this debate Now, I’ll pass it, I don’t want to dominate here MALE VOICE 4: They exist… but on another plane DR JACKSON: With hobbits and Lord of the Rings and MALE VOICE 4: On this plane there’s been a word called genocide That is something that cannot be debated MALE VOICE: Right [Applause] MALE VOICE 4: – – DR BEGAY: Could you go to the mics so that FEMALE VOICE 4: Actually there’s a lot of people waiting in line here too DR BEGAY: Okay, so— FEMALE VOICE 4: And I’m supposed to ask our

online questions at least once DR BEGAY: Next question and then we’ll pick up the gentleman that was speaking FEMALE VOICE 4: Okay I want to acknowledge all the online questions that are coming in right now, and one of them asks, couldn’t school mascots be covered by Title IX education equality rules? DR BEGAY: Repeat that again, please FEMALE VOICE 4: Couldn’t school mascots be covered by Title IX education equality rules? DR BEGAY: Ellen, I think this is right up your alley DR STAUROWSKY: Things seem to be pointing in my direction You know, I’ve been a little bit surprised that there hasn’t been more consideration of how Title IX might apply from the standpoint that the vast majority of these mascots are gendered, they’re male representations, and I think it is possible that we could think through a way that Title IX might apply to these So I think it’s a great question and I think we need to have more work done in term of explaining why Title IX would work but especially given the fact that the imagery is so male-dominated that that would be an opening for a Title IX consideration DR BEGAY: We only have time for a few more questions We’re getting close to lunchtime, and then we’re going to reconvene at 1:30 p.m. so please come back at 1:30 p.m. but let’s take a couple more questions FEMALE VOICE 5: We have all been exposed to the images of American Indians as savages, one specifically of the scalping of homesteaders as they went West, and my question is to the panel, can someone explain the origin of scalping to this audience and how this became a part of the American culture? MS WAGGONER: I can talk a little bit about that There’s, one of our Suzan Harjo today, I wish she could talk about this because this is something she’s very interested in Can you talk about it? Is she here? There’s a… scalping isn’t a Native American practice per se It was done in the early colonial period by whites who got bounties for their scalps and in fact, the man who started the Carlisle Indian School, Richard Henry Pratt, I found an article that he wrote addressing this I believe it was written before 1900, talking about the different prices paid for scalps of Indian males, scalps of children, scalps of women, so kind of like how they used to have bounties for wolves, you know, to get rid of wolves, they did the same thing for Indians So the scalping, it becomes… I’m not a war aficionado but it’s the same thing we’ve been talking about here all day, is that this is the wall, what is it, the expression that you were… the curtain that sort of goes down over Colonialism that reflects back… doesn’t reflect back what has actually happened in reality And I think one broader thing I just wanted to say here is that the whole notion today of political correctness really kind of envelopes this whole conversation we’re having because I think people are… there are a lot of people who are intolerant of the notion of political correctness, so that just anything that’s politically correct, they fight I know I even posted on my Facebook page a picture of Lone Star Dietz in his Indian regalia during some conversation people were having about not wearing Indian costumes at Halloween because I have a lot of historian friends who are really against that, and somebody wrote back to me, what, is this not okay now? You know, and thinking that it was a real Indian dressed up in his Native costume and so it’s just… these things are so circular but how this symbol of scalping gets attached to Indians is really complicated and not true completely DR BEGAY: We’ll have one more question, and Dr. King here just sent me a note that I know there are a couple of high school kids here that want to ask some questions

He’s more than willing to talk to you about this as soon as we take this last question and break for lunch And I think some of the panelists will also will stay, we’ll have a discussion and we’d be happy to talk to you some more So one last question, please FEMALE VOICE 6: Great I want to send everybody to lunch with a call and a question I was really inspired by this image and by the symposium, and I put a piece, my name’s Daisy Bertrip [phonetic], I put a piece of a poet to, on the meet-up group, and I just want to read these five lines And I want to call other, you guys say, what’s next, a lot of people saying, what’s next, and a lot of people say, so what, and I say, so what’s next This inspires a lot of people and it makes people laugh and it makes them think, and I want a lot of people to bring up things whether it’s a question that can be transferred like good gossip, or a piece like this or a poem that makes people laugh and cringe at the same time and ask the question so it spreads like good gossip, whether it’s in this little city or in the country or worldwide So I can just read these few lines that I wrote, because of this symposium I dedicated it to this symposium “Go Skins A phrase can reflect what some don’t detect but what wrenches us all to the bone We’re all playing with fire when one’s dish of desire is served up on ceremonial stone There’s been a request, not for the few but the rest that a new phrase would best serve us all But more anchent [phonetic] is finer if it’s just a one liner Go Pigskins is befitting football.” [Laughter] [Applause] FEMALE VOICE 6: I’m going to put it into a song because I’m changing poetry to song and I invite people to just do this Create it, put it on t-shirts, put it out, spread it out because this is just a few of the people that made it here today, and so many people wanted to come You know it Thank you DR BEGAY: Thank you Let me just say in closing that I appreciate your attendance and your attentiveness and thank you to the panelists as well And a word of encouragement, please talk to each other, listen to each other, talk to your children, talk to your grandchildren, talk to your great-grandchildren, and let’s see what kind of different world we can create Thank you very much [Applause]