Civilizing the Barbarians Lecture 16: Q & A

yes yes Australia is especially in this regard I’m just trying to a given point why okay East was tralia as special as United States in the area okay let me tell you that notion of religious toleration which I just described is specifically American England still I mean and I remember a wonderful I have to tell you this story it’s not immediate but it’s real all right I tell you is no no no that it was not in new country it was part of England constitutionally traditional right so you have to understand that England still has an established church like this is right there Catholics were not tolerated we’re not fully tolerated some couldn’t go to university till effectively middle of 19th century it’s different in the Emancipation laws happens in agents urges but you know that there are all kind of legal things which would prevent a Catholic attending Oxford till much later huh so it’s they do not have this is a great American invention sort of combining by the way religiosity with tolerance this is not something you find in that there is sort of of course a great example of friends which establishes sort of religious emancipation during the French Revolution but then it back tracks and it’s it’s still sort of now struggling with it sort of they they have difficulty France as a country is difficulty facing the whole issue of how state and church sort of they they is not easy for them the United States is a wonderful example the American history is an example of ever-increasing toleration yes it’s also an example of most terrible intolerance in terms of first Native Americans and then the blacks will be talking about it in the end of the course and this is I mean sort of you know there we after we have to accept one way except the praise as Americans we have to also accept the blade in the united states was the country with slavery was legal till believe it or not 1863 a Lincoln signed the Declaration I mean just the other day as it were historically and effectively discrimination very hard discrimination he has the black lasted till Lyndon Johnson time so you know I have friends who remember segregate itself who grew up I mean my very close friend Dave Massa grew in the segregated self he saw it all you know he when he grew up there were like separate everything and they were not equal I mean they’re supposed to be separate but equal but it was separate and not equal and even now we still have this sort of tolerance acceptance of other races of other creeds is a goal it’s not I mean do not do not assume that it’s accomplished here and just saying that United States there’s wonderful examples and people like Franklin but so no straily I I mean I’m not trying to criticize Australia not trying to criticize I’m just saying that United States in some sense and the several special people right even this you know that we have to we have to see that you know the history is a very harsh thing and we’ll look at it we see that our ancestors what terrible from which one should we arrive we should derive it so probably are we we

just don’t see our terrible terrible ways yes maybe there are follow justin survived because not the tolerance vital for the survival of any region being asif asks if tolerant religions just disappear well because nobody survives I constantly have this discussion sir but don’t worry duty to serve I know actually don’t have a duty to survival I actually claim that not I mean preserving my gene pool should not be my ethical go in that if I is it but what about your children and grandchildren well whatever if if I have to go and kill all the Jews to preserve my children now now I should not do that at least I view it as an absolute categorical imperative you say but Alex are the Christians do not agree with you well but I think the founder of my religion does agree with me well for clearly for first 300 years Christianity followed him us then we will be talking about it Christianity became a state religion was it good for Christianity well in some sense it was good when they stopped feeding you two lions I guess it’s good was it good for the soul of Christianity this is a mixed thing all right sort of we will be talking about it’s a very very major issue but you know we have to face it again whatever happened in history I am trying to say that the issue is still now the issue is for me should i do evil things to preserve my religion my race whatever I think no absolutely not that’s the only answer I could tell you guys that you know and it’s not it’s not it’s not just you know from my position it’s a position with girls as I say before Christianity Socrates was clearly articulating it I I find it totally supported by the message of the new testament and supported by the great leaders from other religions when I read Gandhi I see the same the same answers said no you should not use violence I still view him as the greatest leader political leader of the last several hundred years precisely because he said we shall not kill murder we shall not kill in order to obtain our political goals and many people had to die to obtain his pill political girls part they won this I have question like what is the limit of religious tolerance because like given in the ancient times there was a limit capillaries the wall happened in mahabharat diamond has a gold orange yes and I claim the gas every all the ancient religious documents are violent I think it’s our limitation it’s not the limited I mean you see there I claim that violence has to be rejected I don’t mean by the way I think I was very clear in the course I’m not a pacifist you know I claim that military service in defense defense of your country in a very narrow sense when one somebody attacked not one could attack not one would attack when somebody does attack very legitimately sort of fighting you know when Condoleezza Rice says that there is this cloud atomic cloud coming let’s go and bomb Iraq to submission she’s a war criminal she when you factored evidence good job by the way you think I particular laughs Adam who say no i don’t i mean i’m not related there is no no particular but he did not attack united states that was a clearly

aggressive war I see absolutely no justification say she didn’t like Jews Punk you didn’t like Jews this is not you have no right to attack a country however did you see that it’s not difficult to love people who are agreeing with you you know it’s not difficult to love my friends you know it’s not difficult to accept people who program in C++ using my techniques it’s accepting those Java programmers yes you know I we have to that tolerance doesn’t mean I accept what you know I don’t have to agree yes I think that Gandhi was right in other words yes you have to tolerate everyone I don’t mean agree in you saying but they’re bad people and could attack you tough when the attack you can defend if you not just go in slaughter them that that is not Simon you know unless we stop this attitude of hatred and especially look you know fortunately when they were hunting Amalekites they were low tech people you know they they couldn’t destroy the world now if Israel goes after Amalekites they have nuclear bombs allegedly alleged some people say nobody believes in that now good people will accept yes allegedly they put you in jail if you are certain they did I unlegit but it’s dangerous guys that’s what I’m trying to say Pakistan has nuclear bombs United States as nuclear bombs and used them this is ana this is a dangerous world in few decades every country will have nuclear bombs it’s not i mean if Pakistan and North Korea could make them guys everybody could make it will spread and people will find a righteous cause to bomb the Amalekites let us you know this this is why I don’t know why do you think I say all of that because I really think it’s it’s urgent now is the time to raise these issues just tomorrow somebody will push the button to destroy the evil guys when I read the newspapers I see hatred sort of toward everyone you know everybody hates everybody else read best thing is to read what comes after the article you know if there is an article about something then there are people who comment and what you find that is from my point of view is just beyond words so listen I don’t believe it’s artificial what a danger I think it’s real I think that getting to be tolerant is our moral duty if you want to save your children become tolerant this is tomorrow you say well but never mind what the other person does of justifying your intolerance by saying that other person is intolerant is way to destruction we have to stop without I mean they have to do it first now they we have to every one of us I have to accept even the religion again sort of other people in santa cruz now sort of pouring oil over trees and worshiping whatever weaker religion should i go and kill them no should i claim they shouldn’t be admitted to UC santa cruz which is apparently this scepter weaker tivities into work no no we have to by the way do i think it’s very dangerous spiritually all this development i think it’s very dangerous but nothing I’m you know using violence against the belief system is it very bad thing that’s what I’m trying to say whatever they they they believe in you know a polo they believe in you know Mitra I yes you know if if if I could persuade them by the way how could I persuade let me tell you one important thing words do not work no amount of religious polemics one way or the other

in whatever ever worked I was we will be talking about him later in the course certain person you should know about called Saint Francis who live next to this place called san francisc sexually named after him in his role he tells his brothers to preach if necessary by words see what he means it’s your behavior it’s your life if you think that your belief system is correct it should show by saying that it is correct it doesn’t prove anything just sorta to say proves that you’re an I mean there is no I mean self affirmation is not an argument we have to we have all of us have to realize that that if we see you know if somebody wants to show me how wonderful they believe system they have to show I mean for example I have a normal regard for six why go to the good vara what do they do they feed everyone there is this wonderful religion which has this fundamental precept s let us feed everyone as everyone not just six not just Hindus sort of close everyone Muslims Christians Jews they would if you are hungry ever sansa son was a go to the good water they will give you food by the way seeks eat meat majority of six parham doesn’t but there are six who don’t but they cook strictly vegetarian in other words kosher food so that anybody could go and did that isn’t it wonderful so I might not know their theology I might not no they’re sacred texts guru for lambda the writing is the Guru the only thing but they show me in action something other than I mean we don’t neither Christians no Jews feed people here and one thing I would start if after me as goes in everyone we should behave in hungry people and then we could somehow talk theological difficult differences if it is important i am not even sure it will feed all the hungry is it really important to discuss theological differences but right now we’re still living the world of darkness and hatred yes fessional of Christianity yes I’m sure you will cover later on Christianity advanced and other countries with the soul just pronounced Buddhist religion that did not advance Christianity for 300 Christianity used Armed Forces to spread itself absolutely true again for first 300 years it was a religion of absolute peace and the force was not used for very simple reason they had no force no it took a while it took a while it took actually relatively long while but of the spread of Christianity by force starts the really egregious examples start at the time of a very great Christian king or Emperor Charlemagne we will talk about that later on but it does it starts with rather brutal sort of we will talk about his treatment of Saxons which was as brutal and cruel as treatment of Amalekites because guess what that’s the text he used yes we will be talking about what happened in South America and Central America that was very very brutal and rung yet we will have special lectures just on that because that’s the sacrament so the conquest of new world is big dill yes yeah there’s blood that says I mean I’m not even making further

on my country’s wasn’t all fall down yes and in Russia isn’t the case of in some sense you know we are inheriting some of my moral debt to the early early beginnings of a change in certain countries is that okay Nicholas is asking is there some moral debt yes any violence you know we all in with Waller heirs of whatever bad things are one nations our religion did yes we have to to face that yes absolutely should I mean you this is you know some people say we should not apply modern moral standards to history I disagree the only moral standards I know I know I do not believe that morality changes I mean example counterexample business mercy night of nights then the saloon would not available it was totally expected to kill the wounded friend where initially and become available again towards amor so the morality is a function oh no no no it’s always wrong no not the mercy killing was never accepted by Christian Church I’m what could I am just reporting the fact what people did for example dueling Yusei well I mean we know that Christians use dueling dueling was one of the most horrendous offenses you were automatically catered by accepting in dual fighting a duel assisting it to do the Christians yes they did in charge ideology except but what was really practice ah sorry what really is practice were practiced that’s you know people have been doing lots of evil things do and will that I could only discuss sort of the I society’s ideal what I claim that society’s ideals for some sometimes questionable so I mean yes there always people always violated their established morality but what I’m just trying to say that we have carefully re-examined and going back we have to look at the writings of the fathers or the Talmud and say does it does it really coincide with with absolute morality I do believe you know I’m not Lennon learning denied the existence of absolute moral norms I’m not learning I’m not his father I don’t believe that modalities determined by class struggle yes but yes but isn’t it a real slippery slope to apply two days models that history first of all because we don’t really know history as we go past into it I mean I may know you know contemporary history but as we go it becomes quite shadowy and it’s basically winners history most cases and it’s it has significant consequences I mean if we really apply it as low like application I mean maybe you you think of different kind of applications but it seems we cannot take dead people to court that’s for sure because they’re dead you know all the assets in the world to the follower of one guy one you know I nega here i am taking it or should we return assets there are many things that it’s much more complicated than that yes neatness says that we cannot absolutely try to do justice by saying well I mean we took all the land from the Native Americans we must return it to Native Americans yes it you know we have to be prudent in our exercise of justice but major restitution or yes no question about it going like 3,000 years over 5,000 or 200 or we stop out there by 50 or it’s again it’s Prudential judgment whenever you can I would go as far as we can but you will soon realize that doesn’t come in you know Amalekites our gun so should Israel p amalekites for

total extermination yes yes yes absolutely except they’re all dead they killed them all if they existed by the way story with amalekites right because think about it Germany pays Jews endured rightly so for mass extermination yes lisa is this right it’s absolutely right I’m proud of Germans that’s right but we can go to you know the Tatas you can go to the Ottoman Empire we can go to the Roman Empire we can go nooo I don’t think yes but this is this is you’re talking hypotheticals it’s no it isn’t no it isn’t I don’t think it is why the child while why somebody born to say I don’t know person of one ethnicity in some ways responsible for the crimes committed by their ancestors responsible why people are responsible for actions of their ancestors people are not responsible legally or even morally but if you don’t have empathy again Germans now who were born after the Second World War clearly were not exterminating Jews huh they pay are they right yes they’re right this is an example yet should Jews look at Palestinians and say should we help them I think they should I know it’s not very popular with it’s part of my audience but I think they they actually have to do what Germans did no one because they’re like personally did something no I don’t think that Asif to the land of sample esteem Ian farmer and threw him at but there are some grave injustice which happened people have to accept it people here I mean should you know Americans try to do something for Native Americans for the tribes which were exterminated yeah in my opinion absolutely is it easy by the way it’s extremely hard it’s not just yes but you here I mean there am I trying to say that our moral duties are ever easy guys I repeat morality is extremely hard figuring out what is right is extremely hard doing what is right is even harder but we have to agree that it is important we have to agree that we have to rectify whatever bad things our ancestors because we you know you if you accept what is good you have to somehow accept what is that for you from your ancestors you are responsible our heritage our heritage is not just the good yes sir it’s a difficult thing you know I literally why you know we you have to always remember and it’s not it’s not this legal thing and it’s not just girl Indians could demand on land back I mean native-americans American it’s not practical but for non American Native Americans I think it’s imperative to feel compassion it’s imperative to look at the reservations and she look this is we should be ashamed that we have that in the midst of us when I go to South Bronx by the way none of my ancestors owned slaves at least not black slaves they probably own some other kind of slaves but that’s besides the point so when I go to South Bronx I think that I have to do something about it South Bronx is a place where you do not want to go ah but it’s it’s really unpleasant I responsible and because i wasn’t even born here but you came here you are benefiting from the fruits of this civilization which are wonderful therefore you have to accept responsibility for the harm this civilization except saying I wasn’t here is not an excuse you’re asking my opinion I’m telling that we have to you know otherwise you know we get him to I didn’t do anything that nobody ever does anything bad I didn’t know about concentration camps I wasn’t a guard there by the way there were no Nazis in Germany in 1945 they all disappeared they were all in the resistance they forgot like for some time so if you

there are no communists the oldest bit the old dissidents somehow but it’s not sell people are responsible people in Russia have to think about compensation for this terrible repressions which happened happened I’m not saying it’s easy to do but yes we are responsible even sorry to say even if you wore in the resistance in Germany you should still feel obligated to pay the juice because your brothers and sisters and cousins and second cousin twice about whatever they were there we have to I’m not saying that legally there is a collective responsibility that I do not believe morally yes yeah we can go even the other way I mean why wouldn’t you must because I guys in dress I mean Americans Americans America I tell you I’m a guy so on and you know we can go a and this again points out to the guys who want us of the guys who lost it does doesn’t it recently it may be easy because we know that but if we go you know a good three four hundred years before have absolutely no clue what really happened ah yes we do yes we do I think you are mistaken about how incomprehensible east it’s difficult but of course look if we start accepting responsibility for things which we do know if Americans start accepting responsibility for example for Hiroshima and Nagasaki that would be a start let us start yes and Dresden and Hamburg yes but you know that my lecture when I talked about two lectures ago two weeks ago happened on the 70th anniversary of Hiroshima when I was talking about I said it wasn’t war crime I still believe it’s a war crime and I would love if there was a national debate when people would sort of thing was it a good thing to do there’s still majority of Americans think it’s a good thing before you even pay money right it’s not paying my I mean you have to get to the point what what is right and what is wrong is it again is it good to kill innocent civilians even if a people say but it might save American lives first of all there is no evidence but what if it will could you do it I say no killing innocence by the way people sort of thought and say it’s wrong to kill only children now actually killing innocent grown-ups is perfectly wrong thing to do it’s child is a simple example when somebody says let’s go kill all the children sorry babes you clearly see that those are most likely especially suckling babes are innocent this is a good example but the point is killing innocent should we view this morally reprehensible you say it’s hard to do things yes I am with you hundred percent how hard it is but if we don’t think if i do not think about it by the way remember I was talking about that the issues right now not just issues of this state but we have to think about what’s going in our professional life whether we start using you know slaughtering of Amalekites even when we talked you said no no no no programmers don’t do that one of give you with you i mean i agree that the future from this point of view is fairly bleak i mean imagine you know tomorrow’s robots that would be in everyone’s control them I I agree with you that going forward it’ll be much more difficult but but but going into history is I think super difficult especially to go into you know not recent history into something much much people ok weaknesses going into history is difficult I grant you that which right in this course you know but it’s better to go into history than not to I think we need to terminate the thing people need to go