2020 Piedmont Regional Goat & Sheep Conference Webinar Series- First Aid & Lambing/Kidding

Okay, so welcome to the Piedmont Regional goat and sheep webinar series. We were originally planning to have this in person later this month but due to all the restrictions we moved it to an online webinar series so we’re excited that you guys are joining us tonight and we hope that you really learn a lot out of this series. So tonight will be learning about first aid and being prepared for Lambing and kidding. It will be the longest out of all of our webinar series because we are tackling two topics in one night since they’re both from the same speaker So each topic is going to take about an hour each and so just be prepared for that and just know if you have to leave out that’s okay we are recording this and it will go out to everybody. Okay so a little bit about our team. There is quite a few of us that work together to put on these Piedmont regional livestock events. We have this conference and then we also do a beef cattle conference every year so you can see all the different agents on there. I am the livestock agent in Alamance County We have several agents on with us tonight Clint’s on from Caswell County, Ashley from Chatham, April from Forsyth and Abbie from Rockingham County and I believe Kim is going to be joining us from Person and Granville County. So they are co-hosting and moderating and helping to manage things tonight and manage the chat window so everybody should stay muted throughout this presentation until she gets to the Q&A section. And honestly we would prefer that all questions go through the chat window so that we can answer them in the order that they’re coming through and keep things a little bit more organized. Okay, so the agenda tonight again we’re going to do “To Call the Vet or Not to Call the Vet”, and “What You Need to Know About Small Ruminant First Aid”. It’s going to be presented by Dr. Jesi Leonard and then “Being Prepared for Lambing or Kidding Season” and then will end tonight with a Q&A session. And as a reminder tomorrow the recording of the webinar will be released you know pending any kind of technological difficulties or anything like that it will get posted to YouTube and sent out. We will have handouts and other resources that will be going out and also an evaluation so we would greatly appreciate it if you would fill out that evaluation to help us plan future conferences and to get your feedback about what you’re learning. Okay so meet Dr. Jesi Leonard. She’s a 2015 graduate of NC State’s College of Veterinary Medicine. She received her undergraduate degrees from NC State’s Departments of Animal and Poultry Science in 2011. A native of Faulkland, North Carolina, Dr. Leonard grew up on a small farm raising beef cattle and sheep Throughout veterinary school Dr. Leonard was involved with short term Christian veterinary missions to the Navajo Nation and the Alaskan Yup‘ik people (um probably pronounced that wrong). Her professional interests include ruminant nutrition and poultry medicine and small ruminant Medicine. In her free time she enjoys Hiking, camping, cooking, traveling, and cheering for NC State’s Wolfpack so I am going to welcome her on board. I will stop my screen sharing and we’ll get her transitioned over so if you will just bear with us for a moment Alrighty. We are doing the First Aid first, right? Alright, can you hear me okay? Oh sorry, Jesi I want to mention the more video cameras we have on the larger our bandwidth is and the harder it is to

stream correctly so I if you will keep your camera’s off. I’ve turned a couple of y’all off, and I wanted to let you know why Are we good to go? I can’t hear you sorry Okay um if you will stop screen sharing and then re-share your screen because we’re not seeing your PowerPoint, yeah I think I did something. Okay great. Come on Now. Yeah, all right, so you are perfect Can you hear me? Nod if you can hear me all right. Good We’re gonna get started. First off we’re gonna go through some first aid, when to call the vet, when you can handle it on your own, and how to help you make those decisions. Um I will get started with first saying call the vet when you don’t know what to do is always a good starting point And I’ll follow that up with you might know what to do but you just aren’t comfortable doing it. So, I think you can sum up the entire presentation with these two slides but we’re gonna go through a lot of the common emergencies and urgencies that I run into so you’ll be a little bit more equipped to handle those on your own. I do want you to remember that every case and every situation is going to be different and we’re gonna be talking in very general cases, very general considerations and so what you might be comfortable handling and what your neighbor might be comfortable handling might not be the same thing. So these are the big three things that we’re gonna do in this Presentation. Really the the two main things that I’m gonna cover is kind of broad injuries and first aid for sheep and goats and then I’m gonna go into diseases and early treatments and we’re gonna break those down. I’m gonna talk about a couple of specific diseases but mainly I’m gonna talk about general presentations and what you can do in a first aid type manner until the vet gets there or until you can figure out what’s going on. And I wanted to leave quite a bit of room in this presentation for questions and answers. I think we’re gonna do one big question and answer session at the end of both presentations, so if you think of questions as we go through, write them down, and make sure to put them in the chat window because I do want to try to answer as many questions as possible. I’m gonna start here at the beginning of this presentation talking about how important it is to have a good relationship with your Veterinarian. So a veterinary client patient relationship is actually a legal Term. So in North Carolina for example if somebody calls me and I don’t know them, haven’t been to their farm and haven’t seen their animals, I can’t give specific treatment recommendations about a specific animal or a specific case. It’s illegal and so I can talk about general cases and I can talk about general treatments like we’re doing today, but I can’t give you specific recommendations if we don’t have a relationship. Can’t prescribe medication without a relationship and it’s actually illegal to give treatments off-label and as you may have noticed not very many things are labeled for goats and sheep and so we give a lot of off-label medications and it’s gonna help us be able to give you the best advice for you and your farm Um, so what I might have one of my clients do might not be the same advice that I would give another client not because it’s not necessarily the same case but because the clients capability might vary person to person. So, I think it’s important to have a good relationship with your veterinarian and I think it’s a very important to develop that relationship in a normal appointment during a normal day so that if you call after hours on the weekend they already know who you are and have an idea. So we’re gonna run through some injury type things first and I will say the most common injury that I see in the field that people actually call the veterinarian out for is gonna be dog bite wounds and the second most common is gonna be broken legs and

that’s usually in babies, baby goats specifically and then I put an honorable mention in here for broken horns because I deal with a lot more goats with broken horns than I ever thought that I would so apparently it happens quite frequently We’re going to go through and talk about predators and bite wounds. A lot of people call and think it’s a coyote attack but most of the time I actually think it’s a dog attack and so we’re gonna talk through a little bit about how to differentiate between the two of those because it might matter how you attack the case and how much risk do you think you have for the rest of the herd Later. There’s a lot of ways to prevent this. Guardian animals are very popular in the southeast. Donkeys, llamas, dogs. I don’t have a strong preference one way or the other there’s a lot of considerations to take into count if you’re trying to select a herd Guardian animal. Um, I’m a big fan of some pretty stout fencing. I like a high number of strands of electric wire and then I like to set one electric wire on the outside of the fence a foot off of the fence and a foot off of the ground it’s a lot more management because that wire wants to get shorted out really easy but it it can help keep coyotes and dogs from scratching under the fence when it’s set that far out from the fence. So a lot of things to keep in mind There’s a lot of information on the world wide web about coyote and dog proof fencing so what you might want to try and let your neighbor might want to try might be different and what you’re able to put… can you hear me, now? If you’re renting a pasture you might not have the ability to put a lot of money into working on the fencing, so you might want to invest in a guardian animal, instead. So coyote attacks typically are pretty obvious. They are pretty efficient predators and so you usually only have one or two animals attacked and those animals are usually dead by the time you arrive. The herd is usually pretty quiet cuz the attack doesn’t take that long and you don’t usually have a lot of Injuries. The exception of that might be when they’re trying to teach some pups how to hunt you might have a few bite wounds here and there but I rarely actually get called out for an attack that I think is a coyote attack usually because anything is already dead Dogs are not as efficient predators and they’ve got, most dogs that will attack a sheep or a goat have a lot of prey drive and so they’ll target you know similar areas but they’re kind of all over the place. I see a lot of bite wounds on the back legs all up and down the back legs and all around the face and so if you have multiple injured animals or if you have like one injured animal that’s not already dead, I would bet it was a dog attack and so we need to basically assess the animal. Let’s say you have an animal that was attacked by some sort of predator. Eventually we’re gonna want to figure out if it was a coyote or if it was a dog so you can prevent the next attack more effectively. We need to assess the animal for puncture wounds and lacerations. These animals are really prone to having quite a few puncture wounds and they can be kind of hard to find and we need to figure out where all those wounds are and how severe they are At the end of the day we need to know is the animal salvageable? Depending on how severe the wounds are and where they’re located it’s gonna answer that question And in this scenario I would say call your vet and chat to them about it. This discussion is a lot different if it’s a pet than if it’s a production animal. Um, if it’s a production animal we’re usually talking about costs and chances. If it’s a pet we usually don’t have this conversation and we come out and assess it and decide if it’s going to live or not So the bite wounds, you need to get good visualization. You need to be able to see what happened and that takes a lot of time. I’m usually shaving quite a lot of the animals so I can make sure I found all the wounds and better able to assess them. Dogs especially like to bite around the face and all up and down the back legs so sometimes there’s some joint involvement. So we need to know if it’s in any of these three locations

right around a joint, in the neck and the throat area and around the face and then how severe they are probably tells us something about the prognosis. And then we’re looking for other major trauma It’s very common for them to also have a broken leg, typically a back leg. In the the shake injury if a dog runs up and bites like the back of their thigh and shakes, it’s a lot of trauma but it’s not that bad there’s a lot of muscle and the bones pretty deep in there there’s some nerves that can have some damage. But if they have that same bite and shake affects up at the face they can do a lot of damage their windpipes and their their esophagus is in there. If those get punctured we’re in a pretty bad way a lot of times they wind up with a broken jaw so if they’re not going to eat later they may need some more intensive hospitalization so just some things to keep in mind. If you’ve got some minor wounds and you want to handle this yourself on the farm, you want to flush those wounds excessively. Flush them a lot more than you think they need to be flushed. Dog bite wounds are pretty dirty The dog mouth isn’t that clean and they’ve usually hung out the pasture several hours by the time you find them so it’s a pretty contaminated wound. So we want to flush that pretty excessively I just use tap water Clean tap water. The wounds already pretty dirty. I’m not worried about making it dirtier. And then I add iodine or betadine to my water to make it like the color of a strong brewed tea so not really rocket science there. And I like to use a 60 cc syringe to flush the wound so I pull up the syringe, flush over the wound, pull up the syringe, flush over the wound, rather than pouring You can get a little bit more pressure behind it with the 60 cc syringe um and then towards the end of my flushes when I’ve flushed everything really well and I’m getting pretty happy with it what I’ll actually do is attach an 18 gauge needle on the end of my 60 cc syringe. I’m not injecting anything. I’m still holding the syringe and needle about a foot away from the wounds pointed down and I’m using it literally like to spray it off with quite a bit of pressure I’m using that needle to increase the psi so I can try to break up any of the bacterial contamination on the surface of the wounds that just flushing did not take care of. So how we dress the wound, bandage the wound, pack the wound really depends on location and severity. I like to wrap leg wounds If the legs broken it’s gonna need a splint anyways but you need to be very careful putting a wrap on a leg. Goats, goats are worse than sheep about trying to eat the bandage off so that you need to make sure they’re not gonna turn around and eat it off or their neighbors not gonna turn around and eat it off. Um, you need to be very careful applying any kind of compressive bandage pretty much anywhere honestly on a sheep or on a goat um especially on the young ones I’ve definitely seen some situations go south and the bandaging was not applied correctly and it can literally cut off blood supply to the rest of the leg so we don’t want to create a lot more problems trying to help. So when in doubt I actually don’t bandage I do like to bandage legs. Face and neck wounds; if I can help it I don’t bandage those, I leave them open. I don’t like to wrap circumferentially around the neck or around the face unless they’re in a hospital setting and they can be monitored more closely. And so if there’s a lot of intense lacerations there and it’s a pet, I’m probably gonna recommend referral just so somebody else can watch those bandages because it probably would benefit from being bandaged. If it’s one area in the field, sometimes I’ll do a tie over bandage, but at the end of the day if it’s not too intense I’m gonna try to leave those open. So these bite wounds are definitely going to need some antibiotics and they are definitely going to need some anti-inflammatories and some pain relievers. The problem is anything that’s gonna be super effective antibiotic wise and all of the anti-inflammatories and pain relievers are prescription so you’re gonna need to get those from your vet They’re gonna need daily bandage changes and/or daily wound flushes for the first several days at least Eventually we can usually get to every other day bandage changes but I do like to keep up with daily wound flushes if it’s open. Fly control; if you have a good bandage on there, that’ll keep the flies out. There’s a lot of puncture wounds that you can’t bandage and so for the fly control there I like to use a screw worm spray. This Catron IV is what I keep on my truck. It’s not irritating to the wound. And so I’ll do my

wound flushes, I’ll do my wound dressing, bandage, or whatever wound salve ointment that I’m using and then spray on top of everything and all around the wound with the Catron IV. And then they’re gonna need nutritional support. A lot of these guys don’t want to eat well right after and so whether you’re hanging out with them three times a day to make sure they eat their full allotment or whether you’re putting them in a stall. They’re probably not gonna do well in a stall by themselves so you might need them in a stall and a buddy in the stall next to them just so they have all day to eat their grain and all day to eat their hay and you can keep an eye on how much they’re eating and drinking So broken legs are almost exclusively in the babies and ninety-nine percent of the time it’s a goat baby and it’s probably because they’re doing stuff like this. They’re jumping on top of stuff and jumping off of stuff. Um and so the first thing we need to do is assess if the leg is actually broken. Any injury to a leg on a small ruminant that has a lot of swelling, I’m probably going to assume is broken unless I prove otherwise. And a lot of these cases it’s a complete fracture and so you can see the legs not bending like it’s supposed to and some of them will have a what we call open fracture; you can see bone sticking out through the skin. So if you have any of those cases by all means call and chat with somebody. We can help you decide if we think it needs a splint or a cast or if we need to leave it without any support. I base how I bandage the fracture with how old the animal is, where the fracture is, and how severe the fracture is. Most fractures above the knee or above the hock I don’t um, I usually don’t cast or splint. It’s pretty hard to get that area immobile and so if i don’t think it’s a complete fracture I’ll just do some stall rest, anti-inflammatory pain relievers and no splint. Anything below the knee or below the hock is gonna need at least a splint, maybe a cast I prefer splints um because you can change them and get to the leg and look at the leg you know every day or every other day. Casts are designed to be left on for weeks at a time and then need to be cut off. And a lot of these guys whatever it is they do when they break their leg they usually wind up with a wound so we’re putting the splint on, taking the splint off so we can assess the wound. Again proper splint application is critical when we need to make sure the splint is actually immobilizing the break. And too, just like I was talking about before, we don’t want to put too much pressure or pressure in the wrong areas and cut off blood supply to the rest of the leg. So we need lots of padding, and appropriate even compression So how hard I tighten down and put compression on the splint for a week old lamb and a four month old buck is gonna be completely different You need some rigid material outside of the compressive layer for support. I like to use a split piece of PVC pipe. Some people like to use short pieces of wood and then you need some compression outside of your rigid pieces of the splint. I usually use vet wrap for small ruminants and I usually use duct tape for calves. And then that needs to stay dry and they need to not move around a lot so again we’re gonna have to confine them in a stall. If the skin’s broken at all, if there’s a wound, it’s gonna need antibiotics and any wound that’s involving a fracture and there’s a lot of bone involved you’re probably gonna need some pretty serious antibiotics Again those are gonna be script, so I’d say call your vet Anti-inflammatories and pain relief again are prescriptions so call your vet. We want to limit movement and so we do want to confine them into it in a small area so they probably aren’t going to be left out in the herd to keep up with the herd um but if you just take especially these babies away and put them by themselves they tend to kind of pace. So, we don’t want them doing that; that’ll defeat the purpose of putting them up by themselves. So you can either put a couple buddies in the pen beside them or if they’re still nursing put their mama in there with them and then apply this bandage or splint by all means if you find a broken leg get them up, get them by themselves, get them with their mom and if you feel comfortable applying a quick bandage or splint and so the veterans if you’re having the vet out by all means if not let them hang out until the vet gets there Broken horns. So the main thing people are

worried about when they call me about a broken horn is the bleeding and they bleed a lot I try not to get too worked up about that. It’s going to stop eventually Um, if you want to try to stop the bleeding, a lot of people use the quick stop powder and I actually don’t like that. I’ll explain a little bit more about why in a second, but the main reason is it is so close to their face and it’s terrible if they get that quick stop powder in their eye. And a lot of times when they break off a horn they have a little opening into their sinus and I don’t want that really irritating powder in the sinus cavity. A pressure wrap would be great, it would be ideal Pretty hard to get a lot of pressure down on the head with a wrap where you can turn out and leave the goat alone so what most people wind up doing is trying to hold pressure but also hold the goat. Problem is you keep everybody pretty ramped up the goat’s blood pressure is pretty high, it’s kind of freaking out, so the second let it go it starts bleeding again So I say let it go most of the time. If somebody calls me and it’s been like 45 minutes and still bleeding I tell them to put them in a small area like a Stall or in the barn and give them some feed and some water give them something else to do. Let’s see if we can get their blood pressure to drop and then it’s gonna be a mess. Blood all over the top of their face, on the side of their face, but don’t try to clean those blood clots off until the next day. It finally stopped bleeding and then somebody will go and try to clean it up and it will start bleeding again. So at the end of the day the bleeding is not my main concern It’s going to eventually stop, but those the two main things you can do to try to stop the bleeding would be to try to get a pressure wrap on the goat without like coming under the chin and choking it off or just leave it alone, just let it hang out and let’s see if it’ll stop. Most of the time they will. So the thing that I’m more concerned about is a sinus infection. I mean I’ve seen some big… I just had one like six months ago. A big Kiko got in a fight with another one. His horn got stuck, ripped it off. So if a big Kiko buck can have his horn pulled off and he won’t bleed to death, I think most of the them are okay Most of those though if it’s a mature animal and it breaks their horn off flush with the level of the skull they’re gonna have a nice little window about yeah big into their frontal sinus. Their/ that frontal sinus cavity runs underneath where the horn attaches to the skull and so that’s actually the main problem with these cases. If the frontal sinus is open, suddenly it’s a lot more complicated. If it’s open, I definitely put him on antibiotics at least for a few weeks and I prefer to flush the sinus cavity out daily. And I prefer to pack the wound to try to keep from getting hay and dust and dirt into the sinus If you wind up with a big piece of like, big doesn’t have to be big, piece of hay or trash in the sinus cavity and then the wound closes over there left with a chronic nidus of infection so the one with like a chronic sinusitis or a chronic infection and a angry little foreign body sitting in their sinus cavity. So if they have an open sinus, it’s a whole other ballgame If they don’t, I don’t even put them on antibiotics. They’ll do anti-inflamatories for a few days maybe. So to get the best antibiotics for the sinus and to get anti-inflammatories you’re gonna have to get those from your vet. But again not doing much else. I’ll teach people how to flush the sinus out. You don’t even have to have me out there to do that every day. It’s pretty easy to handle on your own. It’s just getting the antibiotics and anti-inflammatories It’ll be tough. So to summarize injury/ first aid. You’re gonna want to assess whatever it is. Whatever wound it is: bite wound, broken horn, broken leg. Clean it if it needs to be cleaned and then go ahead and get them up and confined into a stall rest at that point. If you’re having the vet out that’s the time to have the vet out; if you’re not we talked through some pros and cons to managing things. There’s a lot of different wound dressings out there. There’s a lot of different sprays and salves I’m not terribly picky about any of those. I don’t like the Blu-Kot personally because it’s very hard to get back out of the wound. And so if you spray, if you’re having me out or if you’re having your vet out, they’ll love you forever if you don’t put blu-kot in there first because it’s very hard to get out. Fly control, screw worm spray works great All these, any kind of injury where there’s gonna be some blood involved and it’s kind of sort of trying to be fly season I do this screw worm spray or the

Catron IV. For um pain control, anti-inflammatories that’s gonna be something you have to get from your vet along with most of the better antibiotics. And so you know assessing the wound your vet can help you out even if it’s over the phone. Whether or not to bandage the wound and how to bandage the wound, your vet can help you out even if it’s over the phone. The anti-inflammatories and antibiotics are all gonna be prescription. So this is my preference for a bandage and or a bandage and a splint if I have a a wound that I’m needing to dress. I like these non-stick wound pads. So this I think this brand is like the telfa pad T E L F A, but the idea is it won’t stick to the wound when it’s stuck on there for you know 24 hours. It’ll come off well. And I think this is a 2 by 8. I like them very long and skinny because a lot of wounds tend to be kind of circumferential around legs and then I can cut these down the sides. You’ll see these for people a lot of times that are you know about 1/2 or 1/3 of this size. This is the clinge roll gauze so that’s what I use on top of my nonstick pads. It basically provides some padding It’s not on there very tight; it’s just rolled around and it kind of sort of sticks to itself but not really. The whole purpose of that is to provide some padding up and down wherever the wound is And then on top of that, I do like a vet wrap. It’s not terribly expensive. Like this is like a count 18 box for like $25 This is the four inch. It comes in two inch. I think I only have the four inch on my truck. And then on top of that so non stick pad, the clinge, roll gauze, one layer of this. It’s. it’s just enough just enough to hold this clean gauze on there It’s not very tight and it’s it’s only like one wrap. It’s just to kind of hold everything together. Um you can have this be the end of the bandage. That works um somewhat well for small goats that have like dog bite wounds on their back legs but if we’re doing a splint, on top of all that, like on top of our padding, um on top of our vet wrap I’ll do more padding. This is a economy roll. You can get it from your veterinarian or on line. You can see about how thick it is with my hand in there And it comes in like a big roll so you can cut it down a size. I keep it in one yard sections on, on my truck. Um and that stuff’s pretty tall; that’s more for like a horse leg, but I’ll cut it in half for little splints and then I do a layer of vet wrap around the outside of that This is the tricky layer, because this is the layer that’s going to be protecting the leg with even compression because the Vet Wrap on the outside of this is going to be compressive. I’m gonna be putting some pressure on it This is the tricky layer and if you’re not comfortable, this is the layer to get your veterinarian to help you figure out how to put on. And then, this is the PVC that I like. I keep several lengths on the truck for splints for goats and sheep and calves that also like to break their legs. And then on the outside of that, like I said for goats and sheep I do more vet wrap for more compression and for calves I do duct tape. And how I place the PVC has a lot to do with how the fracture is and so it’s hard for me to give you good guidelines on that. But I would say if you’re trying to like temporarily splint it and you want the vet to come out and assess it later, but you’re trying to give it some support while you wait for the vet. I like to put one piece of PVC either on the front or the back of the leg and the second pieces of PVC on the outside of the leg So we’re at least trying to limit mobility forward and backward and side to side until the vet can get out there. I threw these in here because this is, I’ve not had these well, I might have had these for a year These are battery-operated and they’re fantastic. They keep it charged for a long time, so if anyone is looking to add a set of clippers to your arsenal I really like these. They’re also very quiet and have adjustable speed. So now we’re going to diseases and other problems. The problem is I could talk for 100 hours and not even cover everything that you need to know about all these diseases So I’m gonna go through the most common things and help you kind of assess from there. I’m not gonna focus much on like obstetrical emergencies, labor, cold babies that kind of thing because we’re going

to talk about that in the next, the next presentation. So first off is the drunk goat. And that’s a goat stumbling around that’s not quite acting right; acting a little Spacey. And that’s luckily a very short list of possibilities. The most common are Listeria and polio The problem is Listeria and polio and rabies all look exactly the same And obviously Listeria and polio like I’m not that worried about them but the rabies I am. So we’re gonna talk through treating for polio a little bit, but I also want you to keep in mind like trauma, like a head trauma can make them look like that. And then toxicity, like a pasture weed would be the most common and I think Azalea is probably the most common toxicity I see The next would be like the down goat. You come out and she’s just laying down somewhere or he’s laying down somewhere Won’t get up and you don’t know why. The problem is that could be literally anything. And so we want to go through and figure out what do we know about him, because that’s gonna narrow the list of possibilities down Is it a buck? Is it a ram? Is it a doe? Is it a ewe? Is it a baby? Is she pregnant? Is she nursing? Do they have a fever? Are they injured? Do they have a broken leg? Sometimes our broken legs present like this. Sometimes our dog attacks present like this. Did the diet change in the last couple weeks? Are they actually a drunk goat; they just happen to be so uncoordinated that they are down? Are they bloated? Are they pale? So run through that list and ask yourself those questions and that can kind of help us narrow some things down. The off feed, no appetite animal, looks…it’s almost the exact same thing. If they’re not giving you any other symptoms other than they just didn’t want to eat that day it’s the same list because a lot of times our off feed no appetite animals are a down animal in a couple days So run through the list and see if we can figure out you know what’s going on and then narrow things down. So we’re gonna talk a little bit about the thiamine deficiency, the polio Cause it’s very common and that would be at the top of my list for a drunk or down possibly goat or sheep So a lot of these if you catch them early, they’re up and walking around just drunk. They can be down and they can be off feed. I see a lot of older pets, the primary complaint is they’re just not eating. And it winds up being a little bit of a thiamine deficiency. So this is where I’ll caution you. If you have any kind of drunk animal; a drunk sheep, or a drunk goat It looks a lot like listeria. Rabies Trauma. Toxicity. Right? The problem is rabies is the one that I’m most worried about. So wear gloves and limit the contacts. Don’t have everybody in the neighborhood come look at the drunk goat if you can help it, just in case it winds up being a rabies case we don’t have 50 people exposed and just keep it in the back of your mind Because rabies in sheep and in goats does not look like rabies in dogs and cats. It just looks like a little bit of a dull goat who can’t quite get around So keep that in mind and if you have a goat that presents drunk; she presents uncoordinated or he presents uncoordinated not wanting to eat, etc etc. Any animal that you suspect the polio or thiamine deficiency you also need to suspect rabies. And if it dies, it needs to be tested so that you know. As an aside there are rabies vaccines for sheep, that are labeled for sheep. There are not a any labeled vaccines for rabies for goats um but most of us will use the Sheep vaccine for goats off-label. If you’re interested in having your animals vaccinated for rabies, it makes these cases a lot less um concerning, so I highly recommend it for pet animals to have them vaccinated for rabies just so you don’t have to worry about it But if you’re running like 250 head of sheep it might be a little cost prohibitive and it’s cheaper to just hope that your neurologic animals don’t have rabies and if they die have them tested at the lab So thiamine deficiency is caused by a decrease in thiamine. And we don’t have any time to run through how their rumen works, but it’s basically they make their B vitamins in their rumen as a byproduct of their normal rumen microbe that

normal flora doing its thing and working in digesting forage. And so, anything that causes a shift in the rumen microbe population can cause a decrease in thiamine or Amprolium (Corid) is used to treat coccidia; it’s off-label in goats and sheep, as an aside, but it’s the most common coccidia treatment around here probably. And it’s a thiaminase inhibitor since it basically binds thiamine in the rumen and so I’ve never run into a problem with it being used appropriately But I’ve seen some Thiamine deficiencies when it was not dosed correctly. So the number one cause of a shift in rumen microbes, what does that come from? 99% of the time it comes from a grain overload And this doesn’t have to be like the goats busted into the grain bin and ate all they wanted. Sometimes it’s pretty, pretty mild for pet goats. 99 percent of the time they feed, ug they got into where the chickens were eating and basically ate the chicken feed and so most of those don’t happen from a goat grain overload. They got into the chickens and corn and cracked corn like this; that’s the primary ingredient and like the scratch grain is um one of the key players and it’s really bad for causing an grain overload. And it causes quite a rapid spike in pH in the rumen and so keep that in mind if you’re feeding your chickens out somewhere where your goats can get a hold of it. I would recommend stopping doing that. The other times that I’ll see this that aren’t classic would be older goats, pet goats that just are having a hard time eating hay, I think and so they just kind of stopped eating hay they don’t eat as much hay and are just eating feed and this will happen And those are usually not even down. It’s not that obvious; they just are kind of sort of off feed but then on their exam it becomes apparent they are also neurologic So the mainstay of treatment for this is thiamine. I like everybody to have some thiamine on hand, but I believe it’s prescription, now and I’m gonna say thiamine it’s a B vitamin so it’s in the B vitamin complex injectable which is available over-the-counter. But it’s available in such a low amount in that B complex that it’s probably not gonna help you get them over the hump and complete the treatment. And if you’ve got B complex at home and you think your animal has thiamine deficiency, go ahead and get a shot of B complex in it like a big one, a big dose under the skin while you try to get your hands on some thiamine from the vet. So thiamine, I like the 500 min per mil version I think there’s also a 200 available I carry the 500 and your standard like hundred, 110 pound animal is gonna need about 3 cc’s of that three times a day and it’s usually gonna take three to five days or better to recover It depends on how severe it is. It’s it’s very amenable to treatment. It responds very well to treatment especially if you get it early and you recognize what it is. Um, besides doing that, I want to increase their forage intake. Whatever they will eat that is a forage, is a fiber. So hay, grass, leaves, whatever she’ll eat within reason. If it’s not toxic, I don’t care, let her eat it. We definitely want to watch their water intake. Thiamine, like it was on our drunk goat list, right? So it affects their brain and how their brain behaves and it can affect their cranial nerves. So some of the other nerves in their head including the one that helps them swallow And so some of these guys literally cannot swallow so they can’t drink and in those cases we need to put them on fluids and most of the time if we give them some time, we can get them, um get them by for a couple days on sub-q fluids. So a lot of times we don’t even have to put it in an IV until we get their nerves firing correctly so they can start drinking again. Confinement, for sure. We need to be able to keep an eye on them Make sure they’re drinking. Make sure they’re eating. So the the thiamine deficiency that typically happens from a shift in the rumen microbes, we think okay we need to reset the rumen and we need to get those healthy microbes back in there. The main way we do that is with forage; hay, grass, leaves, browse, etc Um, but I do like adding probiotics into

those. There’s a lot of probiotics on the market. A lot of people want to keep them on hand for these types of emergencies; little off feed goats, etc. It’s really, really hard to get a good shelf stable probiotic for a ruminant because all those little microbes that live in the rumen are not very sturdy. Like we were just talking about a little shift in the pH in the rumen just shifts all the microbes out of whack And so the the one that probably works the best right now is the Coc’s Probiotic. But there are a couple other brands out there. I try to get one that’s labeled for goats and sheep, um small ruminants but if you can’t find one the cow probiotics are very similar. And then I like to avoid carbohydrates for the first few days in these so anything really sugary. There’s some energy drenches out there that have sugar in them or dextrose or glucose. Don’t use those. Um and then I don’t use grain for the first few days for these guys just forage until we can get the rumen reset. If they need energy, I prefer to add that with a product like Nutridrench or propylene glycol. So keep that in mind Try not to feed them a bunch of grain those first couple days while they’re on their rumen reset. We talked briefly about rabies, but I’m going to mention it again because it looks exactly like a thiamine deficiency or a polio case. So if you think you have a polio case and you go through all these steps and you’re doing all these things and you’re treating them and it dies; it needs to be taken to the diagnostic lab and it needs to be tested If you’re not able to get it to the diagnostic lab, your County Public Health Department can help you get that animal sampled and find out if it’s rabies. So, internal parasites, I don’t have a ton of time to talk about this, but we’re gonna go through it really quick. It’s one of the most common after-hours emergencies that I deal with just because they typically present as down and it is a bit of a chronic problem so just keep this in mind. Internal parasites cause anemia and it’s a significant anemia that presents them as a sudden down or off feed animal. And so I hope you are familiar with a FAMANCHA system. If you’re not ask your Extension agent about it, ask your vet about it and learn to do it It’s basically a way to score your animal’s anemia, so how pink their eyelids are on a scale of one to five. (mumbling) WIth the COVID outbreak now it might be a little difficult getting your FAMACHA certification through extension. If your veterinarian is still willing to make herd visits we’re doing stuff that’s not super easy to put off If you’re unable, to get someone certified from either of those places and get a FAMACHA card it’s available online now and I’m gonna include this link at the end of the presentation and it’s also gonna be in a list of resources that I’m gonna send you guys so you’ll have a PDF with hyperlinks you can click on it. So don’t don’t panic and try to write this whole thing down I’m gonna send this to you later so if you need to you can get your FAMACHA certification online. Um and that’s how you get the card. So a lot of people try to print that card out online on their own printer um but the printer inks just not the same printer to printer and so you don’t want to have your card being a completely different set of shade from the original card. So we I mean I don’t even print cards. I buy them from the University in Georgia and so you need to go through the FAMACHA certification in order to qualify for purchasing a card Sohow do we treatthe anemia? First we have to plug the leak or kill the parasites. Parasites literally attach to the gut wall and suck blood and protein out of the sheep or the goat so we gotta stop that from happening. We do that by killing the parasites. I get asked all the time what the best dewormer is and we don’t have a lot of time to talk about it. I’m gonna run through the four classes so the first class is the dewormers like Safeguard, Valbazen Panacur. Those are all in the same class and so they all share resistance and so if you know you have resistance to Valbazen you also have resistance to Safeguard and Panacur. It’s all basically the same thing and Safeguard works almost nowhere in the southeast I don’t even tell people to buy it anymore. I’ll I’ll use it for tapeworms or Valbazen for tapeworms but past

that I don’t recommend it at all for the run-of-the-mill haemoncus internal parasite. So the next is ivermectin that’s available as either Ivomec sheep drench or Ivermectin injectable for cows. It works like maybe on 50% of the farms. It’s got a lot of resistance across the southeast The next one we move to if Ivermectin doesn’t work is Cydectin available Cydectin Sheep Drench or Cydectin Pour on for cows The active ingredient is Moxidectin. That works pretty, pretty consistently and if you’re having some resistance issues to Cydectin or Moxidectin you’re kind of in trouble because the last one left is Prohibit. Again, it’s the Sheep drench Levamisole, and the effective dose that kills the parasites is really close to the toxic dose which kills the animal. So I’ve definitely seen some cases where especially with lambs it’s really easy to misjudge their weight and they got overdosed and had some toxicity issues, so I don’t like to use prohibit in young ones and I don’t like to use it unless you have a scale and can accurately weigh them So this is kind of the last resort it works like a charm um most of the time and that’s probably because nobody uses it because it’s a pain It’s a powder You gotta mix it. It’s too easy to cause some toxicity issues with it which is why it still works. It really hasn’t been overused so in trying to decide between these four which one you need to use. It really depends on your farm and I know you’re gonna get tired of me saying that but that’s because the resistance that you have and the resistance that your neighbor has and the resistance that my client down the road has is all going to be different and so what works on your farm is going to be different. You really technically need to call your vet for that because the dose that works; the effective dose is not the dose on the label so you’re gonna be giving it off-label Additionally if you’re giving any of these to a goat except for safeguard or panicur in that class nothing in the other three effective classes are labeled for goats you’re gonna be giving it off-label anyway which is technically illegal without a script, so you’re gonna need to talk to your vet about getting approved. Make sure you’re using appropriate dosing and making sure you have that relationship and using the products legally and then if we plug the leak by deworming right we kill the parasites. I also like to confine them; put them in a stall so they don’t have to wander the pasture and expend a bunch of energy moving around. Some of these are already down and can’t do that. So now we need to add back what’s lost. If it’s a really significant case we add back that protein and those red blood cells that the parasites that have been leaking out of the bloodstream with a blood transfusion. Pretty expensive, not that cheap, so we don’t do a ton of those That’s gonna have to be from your veterinarian but if she’s up, if she’s eating you don’t have to do a blood transfusion Some of these will recover without it and to get that protein back in to get those red blood cells back you need a few things. You need time cause it’s gonna take a month or six weeks. You need, she needs, he needs, whoever, the anemic one is, needs protein so they’re gonna need to be eating a pretty good protein feed. I like to if it’s not a male add in a pretty high protein like Starter/Grower even if it’s an older animal just to make sure we’re getting enough protein in there without having to add a ton more volume of feed. And then B vitamins they make B vitamins in their rumen. I like B complex once a week on these girls or guys. Most of them, it’s most of the time, it’s a girl, subcue and the vitamin B complex injectable we actually thinks helps stimulate appetite so some of these guys don’t have the best appetite. If they don’t have a good appetite, I’ll give b-complex injections once a day until they start eating well and from there the confinement also helps with the adding back protein and red blood cells It helps you monitor how much they’re eating and how much they’re drinking and if it takes them all day to eat their feed and their water or eat their feed and their hay so be it. They have all day. They don’t have to fight with anybody else for it. The confinement also helps stop fight infection so if they’re not out on pasture eating more parasites we continue to leave the leak in the bottom of the bucket plugged until we can get her protein and red blood cells back up where they need to be. So that’s my two cents on pretty aggressively treating a bad and median case. So just to kind of sum up our early medical assessment for anything whether it’s down, whether it’s drunk, whether it’s off feed, you need to

ask yourself what is it? Is it a buck or a ram? Is it a doe or ewe? Is it a kid or a lamb? Is she pregnant? Is she lactating? Is she in labor? We’ll talk about that in the next talk. What happened recently? Have there been any recent pasture changes? Diet changes? Did you just vaccinate him or deworm him last week? Like what just happened that might have triggered this? It might be nothing We need to take the temperature see if they’re running a fever or if they’re cold. You can count respirations that’s pretty easy to do. So, you count how many times they’re breathing in a minute. I count in 15 seconds and multiply by 4. Are they drunk or they neurologic? Are they blind? Are they salivating a lot? Goats and sheep don’t actually really hyper salivate but they make a ton of saliva and so if they have a problem with the nerves in their face that aren’t allowing them to swallow it’ll look like they’re salivating a ton and it’s because they’re just not able to swallow their normal amount of saliva. and It’s a lot of volume Are they bloated? Do they have diarrhea? Are they eating? and how was their FAMACHA score? Are they pale? So, just to kind of kick off some first aid treatments and don’t worry you don’t have to panic and write these down it’s gonna be in your list of resources that you’re all gonna get later. If they’re gonna be in labor that’s gonna be in the next presentation. If it’s gonna be a preg tox case that’s gonna be the next presentation. If it’s neurologic, so the drunk goat, you’re gonna want to wear gloves. It’s gonna need to be on anti-inflammatories eventually. All of those are gonna be on thiamine because you can’t rule out a Thiamine deficiency. If I think it’s listeria it’s going need antibiotics and I like a dark quiet stall. The less stimulation they have the better they do If it’s running a fever it’s gonna need something to bring the fever down, Banamine or meloxicam are my two preferences and those are both prescription. Those are really the only two options Most of the time if they’re running a fever it’s something infectious that’s probably gonna need antibiotics. Again put them in a stall, separate them from the rest, make sure they’re eating and drinking. Those like to get dehydrated and stay off feed. Bloat. First-aid for bloat is to pass a tube through the mouth into the rumen and let the pressure release. If it’s a frothy bloat, that’s a whole nother can of worms. They’re gonna need some sort of surfactant to break up the foam. If you’re not comfortable passing the tube down the mouth, that’s probably a call to the veterinarian. Diarrhea. Any animals, any small ruminant with diarrhea, I always deworm them even if they are okay looking on their FAMACHA. If they’re sick, they are probably gonna be pale for a few weeks. Sometimes a coccidia issue, sometimes it’s not. I like to make sure they have a lot of forage options available. Sometimes these guys don’t eat feed very well. Again we need to make sure they’re on water plus or minus add electrolytes depending on the age and depending on how bad the diarrhea is. And we need to figure out what’s causing the diarrhea. No appetite or reduced appetite; stalled, food and water focus make sure they’re eating. Make sure they’re drinking. Give them a bunch of different options and repeat your exam often. If all you can find is that they just don’t want to eat lock them by themselves, give them plenty to eat and drink and see if anything new comes up Do they have a fever tomorrow morning? Has anything changed? A lot of times that no appetite, reduced appetites is the first thing we see. And then pneumonia. Those all need some pretty decent high power antibiotics, anti-inflammatories, fever reducers, stall, food, water. We need to make sure they’re eating and drinking and that’s one of those cases where we really need to focus on the rest of the herd because it’s definitely going be a contagious issue. So again a lot of these places you’re gonna need to get some of these things from your veterinarian and/or talking with your veterinarian. So basically to sum up It’s a do you know what’s wrong? Do you feel comfortable fixing it and if not you probably need to call up your veterinarian. So normally I would ask for Q&A now, but since we’re going to go to the next presentation, Bear with me while I pull that out. Now might be a good minute for a bathroom break if anyone needs it Okay. Hopefully you can see that, somebody come on here and yell at me if you can’t see Alright so switch gears a little bit. Are

you ready for lambing and kidding season? A lot of y’all are probably already through this. What we’re gonna talk through some of the main challenges associated with lambing and kidding and how to get around them. This is obviously our goal, happy, healthy babies nursing mom, no intervention needed. Circle of life. Life goes on. What sometimes happens is all the possible things that can go wrong. Chilled and weak lambs and kids is very common, especially in the colder months. Dystocia is just a fancy term for difficulty giving birth. I see a lot of pregnancy toxemia and that’s a ketosis issue before and/or after birth. It’s very common before in sheep and in for goats it’s very common after in some of the dairy breeds. We do run into some refusal of little lambs and kids sometimes. Failure passive transfer is just a fancy term for they didn’t get their colostrum we’re going to talk about colostrum and colostrum management Prolapses. I see quite a few prolapses we’re gonna talk through some of those if you’re a little squeamish you probably don’t want to see my prolapse pictures but I am gonna show you pictures of vaginal prolapse and uterine prolapse too so you can tell the difference Mastitis, an infection in their udder and then a retained placenta and metritis would be a uterine infection. I see several of those a year as well. So we’re gonna talk through those issues and how to handle them. I’m also going to talk about some supplies I recommend for you to have on hand and then briefly sum it up with prevention and preparedness Don’t panic and try to write all these supplies down either. I’m sending you guys a suggested supplies list for lambing and kidding so you have something to work off of, if you’re trying to put like a lambing/kidding kit together I’m also sending a first-aid supply list as well, suggestions so you have something go off of if you’re trying to build up “What should I have on hand on my farm?” You’ll get my kind of recommended lists, so don’t panic you’re gonna get and you’re gonna get a copy of this presentation as well. Alright let’s talk through the issues, so pregnancy toxemia I see this a lot and it’s one of the more complex topics so we’re gonna go through it first. So pregnancy toxemia is literally just ketosis and it typically happens when they’re pregnant, when they’re third trimester pregnant, which is why it’s called pregnancy toxemia. And it happens when the nutritional demands of the doe or the ewe, so how much nutrition her body actually needs has exceeded the amount that she’s eating. The problem is most of the time as she gets close to the end of her third trimester she actually eats less but her demands are increasing and so you get this kind of inverse reaction while they’re pregnant Not the best time to be having problems So we know her nutrition demands go through the roof to help kind of put that into perspective if a ewe or a doe is carrying twins, her increase in energy demand, I mean, it’s gone up by the mid-30s that’s she needs to eat about a third more than she normally does. That’s quite a bit more. Triplets almost double her energy demand needs. But she’s gonna have a little bit less space to eat in there because she’s got all those babies in her belly taking up room and so this is especially a problem with quads. There’s just so much baby and no room in there So these are our suspect animals to have some issues, definitely the quads Definitely anybody that’s when they lay down and their belly is this big, whatever it is, whether it’s fat or whether it’s baby, those guys are at risk So twins and triplets are definitely at risk or more. Babies definitely take up space in that abdomen, decrease the amount of space she can eat. I actually prefer twins. Twins are my favorite. If I if I could wave a wand and all of them only have one thing all the time it would always be twins I think you actually have less dystocia issues than if you have one big singleton And triplets are a little tricky, some Mama’s don’t raise triplets well Sometimes they’ll end up being a bottle baby and they’re more at risk for

pregnancy toxemia. So thin ewes and thin does, then I have a by condition score of two or less are also at risk because they’re already in a negative energy balance. Something happened for them to be that thin in their third trimester, so they’re already set up for failure Conversely fat ewes and fat does that are body condition score four or greater, also are more prone to this because their fat takes up room in their abdomen Just pretend with me if you will that this is a cross-section of the ewe or doe’s belly and the green area is her rumen. That’s her normal stomach and this is her normally in a great body condition score, around a three with no babies in there. And let’s say that she’s actually a fat, let’s say she’s like a body condition score of four four and a half, so there’s a bunch of fat sitting in her belly um and it’s taking up room so she doesn’t have as much room to eat. um And then you add in, pretend this Red Square is her Red Square uterus and it’s got some babies in there. So suddenly she has a lot less room to actually eat but her energy demands have gone up quite a bit So this is why we deal with pregnancy toxemia so frequently So I suspect pregnancy toxemia in any animal that does any of this, so if she’s close to lambing or kidding, if I think she’s in the third trimester at all, it’s and she’s sick she’s off feed something’s wrong it’s definitely on my list. Or dairy breeds, dairy goats especially that have kidded within the past week or two The reason being even though they don’t have all the babies taking up space in their abdomen anymore, their energy demands, you know how we talked about they can go up by 30 to 45 percent. Their energy demands continue to rise even after those babies are born because now they’re making a ton of milk. And so keep that in mind especially if you have a dairy breed. Like we talked about the really thinner, the really fat animals are definitely at risk and sometimes the first time this presents is they’re just slow to come up or slow to eat. Once they start to get a little ketotic, the first thing that does is decrease their appetite. And so if you’ve got 200-300 head it’s gonna be hard to pick up on those, but if you’ve only got a few you have an advantage and that you can make sure everybody is eating and eating aggressively. If you don’t catch them when they’re slow to come up and slow to eat, the next thing you might notice is they’re off feed and that can happen pretty fast. The change from I don’t have the greatest appetite to now I’m off feed is can be a pretty quick one, that can be like less than a day They can be down and alert so you go out there to check them out and she’s laying down, she looks normal doesn’t look drunk, you go through your whole first-aid checklist from before. She looks alert, may or may not have an appetite she just doesn’t have the umph to get up or she can be down in a dull. You walk up to her and you think she might be a drunk animal because she just seems out of it, she seems dazed and confused. And you can also, as an aside, wind up with a ketotic pregnancy toxemia animal. If she’s sick for another reason, like let’s say she’s third trimester pregnant and she’s lame, she has foot rot She’s third trimester pregnant and you missed her on the FAMACHA score the last time and she’s really anemic. So any other sickness or injury can kick her into ketosis if she stops eating enough. So anything that causes her to go off feed for very long will cause her to be ketotic. So how do we diagnose? Primarily on the symptoms. I’m pretty aggressive between pregnancy toxemia, so if I have a third trimester animal who’s off feed for more than 12 hours. I’m starting to treat her for pregnancy toxemia because if she’s not, if that’s not a primary problem she’s gonna be toxemic in another day. um So definitely call and chat with your veterinarian, um we can diagnose it, diagnose upon an exam. We can run tests for ketones, but I honestly wind up treating a lot of these guys presumptively, based on everything we just talked about. The treatment varies in animal to animal. The mainstay of treatment is propylene glycol and that actually feeds energy to the rumen. So like when we’re feeling bad and we need like a boost, and something we usually eat something with sugar in it. Um but like we were talking about with the thiamine deficiency, sugar does not feed the best rumen microbes and it does not feed the goat directly. It feeds the rumen. Propylene glycol is like the goat and sheep’s version of an energy boost for us, like an ensure or something like that. So that’s actually gonna feed their

rumen. How much depends on the animal, depending on the size, but for your average 120, hundred and fifty pounds doe or ewe, I’m gonna do 60 cc’s two to three times a day depending on her appetite and energy level. And I usually do it for a minimum of three days or until she starts eating good enough for me to know that she’s doing well Propylene glycol, you can kind of burn up the rumen and if you get too much too too too long, but sometimes we’re in a catch-22, rock and a hard place, and this is better than her not eating Sometimes any calcium, the amount depends on the size of the animal and how severe I think that calcium deficiency is. We can definitely run blood work, that’s something we can do to help us calculate how much calcium we need to add back. This, like a low calcium is very common in the dairy breeds but it is also commonly found in conjunction with a pregnancy toxemia case. There’s four old calcium supplements out there designed to give us drenches and there’s injectable calcium out there. Calcium is one of those things where you really can give too much and you can definitely kill them. Calcium is cardiotoxic if you use too much. too quick. So it’s always a good idea to call and chat with your veterinarian before you give calcium. And then if those sorts of things don’t work, we’re trying to get the babies out, we’re trying to give her some room in her abdomen, and decrease her energy demands. And a lot of times we’re choosing to try to save the mom over the babies and so we’re talking about inducing labor or doing an emergency c-section. A lot of times, if the babies come a little too early they’re not viable. Goats and sheep have such a short gestation that the last few days really matter in the development of the fetuses lungs, and so if you take them very early at all their odds of survival are not good. And from then from then it’s supportive care. I like to put them in a stall. I like to put them up by themselves. I like to give a smorgus board of different feed options. – Alfalfa hay, 14 kinds of hay, whatever kind of forage or browse might be growing if it’s a goat Goats might not eat anything but they almost always eat some honey suckles, so that’s usually a way you can like slip something in a goat. And in these animals, the longer they stay off feed- the less likely they are to start eating again. And that’s true for any sheep or goat. The longer they stay off feed, the less likely they are to start eating again. So whatever you can get her to eat within reason, saltine crackers, I don’t care, we just need to get her eating. And I put a lot of these also on B complex and sometimes I’ll do ciamon, especially if they’re down. Because a lot of times by the time we get to this point, we had some rumen upset at some point They’re not making thiamine like they should, so certainly is a wind-up with a thiamine deficiency. Keep that in mind The mortality rate depends on what research paper you look at and who you talk to, but it can get up to 40% even with good quality care and treatment. So the main stay is pregnancy toxemia is to make sure they don’t get that sick. We want to catch them when they’re a little bit off feed, if we can and we really want to try to prevent it on the front end. So making sure they have a good body condition, they’re not too thin they’re not too fat. And we make sure they’re eating enough in their third trimester So now we’re gonna talk through dystocia, some difficulty giving birth, lambing or kidding. The most common that I run into is abnormal presentations. The baby just isn’t coming correctly, they’re supposed to come two feet and the nose, like a swim on dive, very commonly get one leg back or the head back. The second most common thing that I see is the lamb or the kid is just too big and the ewe or the doe is just too small This is most common in pygmies and Nigerian Dwarfs that are bred too young. I don’t like to breed those guys very young at all. They’re already so small, their pelvic area is so small. Their first time is almost always just one baby and those tend to be bigger than if they have twins. And so those guys commonly need to c-sections and then you can have like a sick doe or a sick ewe, like our pregnancy toxemia cases that we were just talking about. A lot of times they’re gonna need help. The animal might be, the fetus might be coming perfectly, everything might be presented well. It might not be too big, it might be the perfect size. She just might not have the oomph to contract and have good uterine and abdominal contractions like she should. So a lot of times they’ll need help. So let’s talk to normal, normally you just don’t see it right. You go to

bed, you wake up, you have babies. nice good Normal presentation stage 1 labor can last quite a while, 12 to 24 hours is common and I’ve definitely seen that mucus plug lost a little bit earlier than that, so they’ll fool ya. That’s when the cervix begins dilating, sometimes you’ll notice some restlessness but sheep and goats through are private species. They’re pretty good at hiding when things are not right. So alot of times you miss this. They’ll even eat a lot of times and act pretty normal during stage one labor. Stage two is when they’re actively contracting and any time we see fetal membranes or the water bag, like you see in the picture here. After the waters broke, we definitely need to get moving on things Once you’ve seen some fetal membranes you’ve seen some amniotic, you’ve seen some placenta. We need to get rocking and rolling. You should have a baby out in 45 minutes, no more than an hour. And if you can see any part of the fetus, if you can see toes, you should have a baby on the ground in a half hour, and if those things aren’t true you need help. Either you need to help her or you need to call the vet depending on your comfort level So this is normal presentation. These pictures are from the drost project, which is pretty cool. The good thing I guess about sheep and goats is that their presentations tend to be a lot like calves, so if you find some information on calf presentations it’s very similar. Only difference is sheep and goats tend to have some, have twins and triplets, quads that kind of thing so this is normal to see kind of coming out of first the swan dive maneuver in the nose, front leg back one or both is the most common thing I run into. That baby is not coming out headfirst with one leg back. Some of the really big boars, I’ve seen push out smaller kids with one leg back. So they can probably do it, but for most animals they’re gonna have to reach in there and reposition that other front leg so you can get both front legs and the head coming out like they should Head back is very common, I think that is harder to deal with than the leg back Same thing, you’re gonna have to get that head up and around, between those two front legs in order for that baby to fit out. Breech can either present you know completely tail first with the both back legs retained or it can present both back legs out. In that presentation, that breech presentation, where you can see both back legs is really, I guess I should say a lot of people misinterpret a head back for a breech. They have two feet and no head, and they think they have back feet, when in actuality they have front feet they just weren’t able to find the head. So you need to know, because if the baby is coming backwards you can pull these breeches out backwards with the back legs. If the baby is coming forward, we need to get their head turned before we can turn them out. So you need to be able to figure out if you have front legs or back legs um and we’ll talk about front legs versus back legs in a minute. This happens pretty commonly too – I’ve definitely showed up somewhere where we had two feet and a head and the two feet didn’t belong to the same baby So you need to trace those feet back, if she’s having trouble and figure out alright, which foot goes to which fetus and get same two front feet and the same head from the same baby before you try to start helping her. So this is always harder in practice than it is when we talked about it in lecture. Um in your comfort level, when you get you know elbow deep in a ewe or in a doe, some of this you just have to learn by doing So the first thing to recognize here, when we look at a normal animal is their knees and their hocks so that kind of knee and hock joint, on both the front foot and the back foot. They bend in opposite directions, so when you think about when they lay down, right, so the knees bend kind of towards the body and the body but their little ankles their little fetlocks all bend in the same direction and So if you have the ankle and the next joint up, because you’re not gonna know if it’s a front leg or a back leg, if the ankle in that next join up bend in the same direction- you know it’s a knee, so you know it’s a front leg If the ankle and the next joint up, bend in opposite directions, you know that’s a back leg. And so if you have two back legs attached to the same fetus you know you can go ahead and pull that baby out But you have to be able to figure out what’s a front leg and what’s a back leg before you start doing too much So after any assisted delivery, if I have to help at all,

we’re probably gonna help that fetus out too – so sit the baby, the kid, the lamb upright in a sternal position. It used to be very common to hold the baby upside down and try to let any fluids run out of the lungs. We don’t recommend that anymore The reason being, most of the fluid that drains out of the fetus- they actually discovered was stomach fluid. So that probably doesn’t help getting that out of the way And then it takes all of their internal organs and slams them forward against their diaphragm. So they’re about to have to take their first breath and you’re literally gonna knock the breath out of them. If any of you, it’s been a while since I’ve had the breath knocked out of me, but it’s terrible and it’s really hard for your diaphragm to get rocking and rolling and get a good breath of air. So don’t pick them upside-down or swing them around like they’ll see in some of the movies. Just sit them upright in a sternal position so right on their chest. I like to pull their back legs up towards their elbows and then stretch their front legs out in front of them And so that allows their chest to open up as much as possible and you don’t, like, if you just look people laying on their side they can only inflate the top side of lungs. So it’s too much weight on the bottom side. So you have to sit them up right so both sides can get air and then clean their nose and mouth, check for swelling, um for weak lambs and kids that aren’t moving well- that rubbing and drying off will stimulate them but you don’t want to do it too hard and compress their chest. Right, they’re trying to breathe too so you want to make sure they have plenty of room to get air and then go ahead and dry them off. If they’re doing well, if you pull them out and they’re rocking and rolling and tossing their head around and making noises, let the mom take care of them. They’re probably gonna do okay but we at least want to make sure that they stand and nurse, if you have to help a lot of times they take a little longer to stand up a nurse after. I go ahead and check mom’s, check her udder, strip her teats go ahead and get the wax plug out all the way, make it easy for them. If I have to assist at all, I don’t leave until I make sure there’s no more babies and I don’t feel a vaginal or uterine tear. That’s going to be hard to figure out if that’s what you’re feeling, if you’ve never felt one before. But at least make sure that she’s had all of the babies that she’s gonna have. and I’ll give mom a minute I’ll give her five or ten minutes and sometimes that helps the uterus contract the next baby up closer into position Take time, get that other baby going. I’ve definitely had cases where I pulled like I pulled the first baby and then while I was working on the first baby she spit the next two out, it was just the one clogging up the work so make sure mom has had all the babies that she’s gonna have before you stop worrying about her and then make sure all the kids and lambs all get up, all nurse, all get dried off, and get good colostrum. So now we’re going to talk about prolapses. If you’re squeamish look away, but I think you need to be able to identify prolapses. The first one we’ll talk about is a vaginal prolapse. So it’s smaller than a uterine prolapse and it happens before lambing or kidding. So the animals so pregnant. This is gonna be hard to figure out, if you’re keeping like a herd of a hundred sheep all together and you’re letting them all lamb on pasture. It won’t be as obvious it’s just stuff like that or not. It is a heritable trait, I’ll go ahead and mention that, it’s in big red letters down here at the bottom. Any any of them that have a vaginal prolapse before they lamb or kid, she is on the cull list for next year and all of her sisters and daughters I want to try to cull that trait out of the herd. It’s more common in older and overweight animals, but still we don’t want to have to deal with that every year So I clean it well, I like the liquid ivory soap in just water. Make sure it’s nice and clean, if it’s very swollen I put powdered sugar, confectioner sugar on it for 20 minutes and then rinse that off and replace the prolapse with steady pressure. Most of those fall back in pretty well, a lot of these girls have a hard time peeing with the prolapse. If they prolapse, their bladder, so sometimes they’ll pee right on ya Then you can either use a prolapse retainer, that’s shaped like a spoon, it kind of just sits in the birth canal and keeps everything from slipping out. You can suture it closed, I don’t love that for small ruminants but some people prefer it. Problem is you have to be there to cut the suture out when she’s lambing or kidding. Or you can use a

harness, so the harness and the prolapse retainers are designed to allow them to lambo or kid around them and you not have to be there to cut a suture out You need to watch her closely during lambing or kidding because she might need help, so even if she’s supposed to be able to lamb or kid around the prolapse retainer, I like to get those out of the way. It makes it easier on her So uterine prolapse is going to be larger than a vaginal prolapse and it’s gonna be lumpy bumpy basically. So you see these little knobs attached to this prolapse, those are the carbuncles, the maternal attachment for the placenta That’s how you know for sure if you have a uterine prolapse or a vaginal prolapse This happens after lambing or kidding, it often happens after a dystocia, so if you’re having to work really hard to get those babies out, sometimes you’ll you’ll turn around and be working on the baby and then you turn back and look at the mom and she’s prolapsed her whole uterus So these you to be very careful with The vaginal prolapses, I’m not that worried about, the uterine prolapses can be deadly. When that prolapse inverts it puts a lot of strain on their uterine artery, which is very large at this point because it’s just been feeding several babies. So they can bleed out internally, they can also lacerate their uterus, best case scenario is if you’re there when it happens you can clean it right up and put it right back in. If you find her in the pasture like this, you need to check it very carefully for any tearing or lacerations. I always put powdered sugar on them and wait at least 20 minutes and then rinse and replace it The powdered sugar helps draw out a lot of the edema and the swelling that’s gonna be a lot easier to get back in there. Again, prolapse retainer or suture Most of these girls I will give calcium to, at least one dose of drench or one dose of injectable. Again, trauma is much more of a concern. This can be much more of a deadly problem and this is not terrible, if she has one uterine prolapse and it’s not the end of the world and we get it put back in, doesn’t bother me she probably won’t do it again. If she has a lot of lacerations, if she has a lot of damage, she may not breed back she might wind up on the cull list I like to position them over a hay bale, especially if I am trying to put in a uterine prolapse, the vaginal prolapses, I don’t worry about too much, but the uterine prolapses, a little bit of gravity can help quite a bit. You want somebody helping you restrain the animal and making sure that she’s still breathing and doing okay. So here’s some more pictures of the uterine prolapse as you can see kind of the different variations in the different ways they will look. Bu you can see it’s quite a bit bigger than the vaginal prolapse, but it still doesn’t look massive, it’s not that big of a uterus Vaginal prolapse again. So now we’re going to talk about um chilled lambs and kids. This is very common, especially in the winter First, you need to take the rectal temperature, regular old digital quick read thermometer. I got mine from Walgreens, it’s pretty basic. Their normal temp is between 102 and 103 Mild hypothermia is 102-101 and a lot of people think oh it’s a hundred degrees that’s pretty good that’s actually quite cold for a baby um Moderate hypothermia is 98 to 100 and I’ve seen some severe cases less than 98 We need to warm them ASAP, so how aggressive you get and how panicked you are depends on their temperature. First some of the mild ones just getting them out of the weather, out of the wind, in the barn and dry, um might be all you need. I like having a warming box, if you have a bunch of lambs or kids being born every year, I think that’s that’s worth the time and effort to put into it. You can see a version of one here on this screen. It’s basically a heater with a small little box ventilation in the bottom and it’s got a lid you can put down on it to make it a little warmer in there, and a thermostat. Some people set them up with heaters that blow air, some people set them up with heat lamps. um You can just do a heat lamp in the barn I like putting heat lamps and the barrels that’s gotten pretty popular here in the last few years, but I think it’s a lot less of a fire risk than a naked heat lamp in the barn. Definitely not worth burning the barn down to warm up a baby or two and then worst case scenario you can bring into the house. I will mention, if they are very cold a lot of people like to do a warm water bath

um and you can, it’s a little dangerous You don’t want to do it too warm and so I like to take the temperature of the water and start it out just to couple degrees warmer than the baby is. I also don’t like to get the baby wet so you can put the lamb or the kid in a trash bag up until its little Neck and obviously don’t duck its head under the water and then you kind of float the baby in the warm water and slowly add more warm water to bring the water temperature up to a hundred and then the baby should start feeling a little better at that point and you can pull it out of the tub, take it out of a trash bag, it should be dry and then start checking its temp and use one of the other methods If the baby is that down and out in that cold, I also like to put some caro syrup or up on their gums to give them a little sugar while waiting for them to get warm Do not try to feed them until you get their temperature over a hundred degrees They won’t even think about nursing a bottle if they’re colder than that I still don’t feed, tube feed them until they’re warmer than that. Use colostrum, from you or from your doe, if you can, if at all possible milk that mom and use that colostrum. You can thin it with warm water if it’s too thick to come through the the nipple in the bottle. If they’re suckling well go ahead and offer a bottle have them nurse I like these Pritchard teats, they are my personal favorite. You can adjust the amount of flow out the end, you have to cut the end off and so you can cut it as big or as small as you want. um They do have a little BB in there, like a little ball bearing that helps regulate the air flow and so you can’t lose that they’re a little hard to clean a lot of people don’t like them for those reasons but they work better especially for weak minutes in my opinion. You’ll need to tube feed it if it’s not taking the bottle well, kind of few people get by with doing syringe feedings but I really prefer for the baby to have a strong suckle before you’re putting stuff in the mouth and it does take some training and some practice to tube feed so again this is one of those things where if you’re not comfortable, have your vet come out and do it and show you how, but if you are comfortable, if you’re having a lot of babies every year, this is a good skill to have. so I don’t give the baby back to mom until we get their temp between hundred and two, 103 and that’s usually gonna take a couple hours to get them warm and get them fed, so buckle up, don’t expect it to take two minutes Check mom, make sure she doesn’t have mastitis, make sure her wax plug has been stripped, make sure these chilled babies have actually gotten milk, a lot of times if you’re finding a hypothermic baby, they haven’t nursed yet and so we want to know why? Did they just get chilled? Were they born too weak? Does mom have mastitis and they weren’t able to get anything? um Check mom out and then make sure after you return them to mom, that they’re nursing Moms, you’re gonna want to keep a close eye on them for the next day or two. I like to keep them together by themselves in a warm place if possible for the next 12 to 24 hours and make sure they are able to maintain their body temp. Make sure they’re not getting hypothermic again, slow weak lethargic is gonna be the first signs of that. So let’s talk about colostrum. Colostrum is the, it’s vital for the baby for that their first immunity for the first few weeks of their life, all comes from colostrum. That’s that first milk mom makes and she’s gonna, she’s been working hard to put all these wonderful antibodies, it’s really colostrum is really rich in protein and really rich in calcium and it’s got a ton of antibodies in it. She’s been working hard to make that for the last couple weeks before she has babies and we need to make sure those babies get it. So anytime you have any opportunity, collect and freeze some colostrum. So let’s say we found a hyperthermic baby in the pasture, you’ve warmed him up, you’re taking him back to mommy, you’re checking mom out and you realize she has bad mastitis. So she did not make good colostrum. Well, this baby still needs some colostrum Where are we gonna get it? If you have some in the freezer, that’s perfect. So anytime you have a let’s say you have a ewe and you pull some babies and they’re both dead, she still has great colostrum, she just doesn’t have anything to do with it. So go ahead and hand milk it out and freeze it. I like to freeze it in little 2 ounce servings, so that way you only thaw out like one serving size at a time. um If you have an older doe or an older ewe, that only has a single, you can probably

milk out, she probably has enough colostrum there for more than one. She probably has enough for two or three, so milk out a few two ounce servings, and anytime you’re thawing your frozen colostrum you need to do it in a warm water bath, you do not want to overheat it and you cannot microwave it because we’re working so hard to preserve these antibodies, antibodies don’t like to be too warm and they do not like the microwave, so doing either those things will kill the antibodies which will defeat the purpose you’ve worked so hard to do this There are powdered colostrum supplements over the counter, there’s some labeled as supplement and there’s some labeled as replacer. Most small ruminant colostrums are bovine IgG, which is better than nothing, if you have no other options use the powdered replacer, colostrum replacer But at every opportunity to collect and freeze this colostrum, it’s better than the shelf stable powdered stuff So lambs and kids can absorb antibodies from colostrum from birth but they’re really best able to absorb in those first eight hours, and their first suckle reflex is part of what triggers the gut wall to close, so the worst-case scenario is a baby that is born, nurses first and then gets sick or cold and doesn’t nurse for the next day so they got a little bit of antibody and they triggered their gut wall to go ahead and close but they didn’t get enough in there next, so we want to make sure they get enough colostrum in a relatively quick amount of time. um So there’s a lot of things that affect the quality of the colostrum- age of the animal, vaccine status of the animal, basically any antibodies that she already has in her system are going to have an impact on the antibody amount in the colostrum and there’s um obviously different thicknesses of colostrum and a lot of times that is related to antibody density, but you’re not going to know that in the field, so we use some why didn’t fast rules and go more off of quantity and hope that we have some pretty good quality colostrum so definitely making sure you have a good vaccine program in your herd and making sure you have healthy animals especially in the third trimester, is gonna affect quality and then we can make sure the babies are getting good quantity, especially if they’re born weak or chilled or had to have some assistance or their a bottle baby. Um a good rule of thumb is ten pounds of body weight so a 10 pound lamb is gonna need a pound of colostrum which is about 16 ounces. If you can get it all in an eight hours, fantastic, but really try to get it in the first day. We don’t have time to talk about all of the problems that occur other than the ones that we’ve talked about, blue bag is the picture to the right or gangrenous mastitis that’s a mastitis that’s deadly, more often than not it’s actually deadly and the ones that survive usually don’t milk, at least out of the side that’s affected, later And so mastitis obviously runs the gamut it runs the gamut from being you know very toxic and deadly to being kind of mild and just affects their ability to produce milk. All versions of mastitis are annoying, all versions of mastitis can be actually kind of tricky to treat, and there aren’t any sheep labeled mastitis treatment so it’s all gonna be off label So to follow along with this, call your vet theme, call the vet. The picture to the left is a ewe with a retained placenta. I don’t get too worked up about the placenta for the first 12 hours, but after that I like to at least get them on some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and then discuss with your vet options Don’t pull on the placenta, talk to your vet first before you do anything. So in a lambing and kidding ki,t there’s a lot of things that you can keep in there and what you want to keep on hand depends on your comfort level right. So if you aren’t gonna try to pull babies, you probably don’t need OB lube and OB sleeves, but if you’re comfortable trying to do some basic repositioning and helping mom, definitely have that on hand Definitely have some exam gloves, I

actually like, I can’t feel anything or grab anything with that big long glove on, and so I put that glove on and then I put an exam glove over the top of that glove and it helps my finger dexterity when I’m trying to pull babies. I almost never use chains or ropes when I’m pulling kids and lambs but some people like them Some people like a head snare, I can think of three times when I really wanted one but I don’t have one on my truck Iodine for dipping navels, thermometer for sure, flashlight, it always happens in the dark, I like to keep a flashlight with my kit. I prefer a stainless steel bucket because it’s easy to disinfect, but anytime you’re cleaning prolapses or pulling babies I like to have a bucket so a prolapse, I’ll have a bucket with like water and ivory soap for a vaginal prolapse, water and iodine, for a uterine prolapse, very dilute, do not put straight iodine on the uterus And I’ll have water and a little bit of chlorine hex if I’m pulling babies so I can wash my gloves off as I go. Vitamin b-complex is over the counter and if you’re comfortable giving shots under the skin, I think you should keep some of that on hand. Bo-Se is an injectable selenium, we’re in a selenium deficient area here in a soil and so talk to your friendly neighborhood veterinarian about if you need to be giving selenium injections before lambing and kidding. We definitely see selenium deficiency issues in lambs and kids that are born to a selenium deficient mom, and so I’ll use the Bo-se in the babies if I suspected selenium deficiency. I won’t use it if the mom got selenium, you know, within the last few weeks before lambing or kidding. Make sure you got some colostrum available, frozen bank colostrum is best, you can use the commercially available stuff if you need to. I like having either nutri-drench or propylene glycol or both on hands for energy. Calcium gluconate or the oral calcium drench, I definitely think everybody that’s lambing and kidding should at least have some available form of calcium. um A feeding tube and 60 cc syringe, if you’re comfortable passing a tube Definitely keep some bottles and nipples and maybe some milk replacer, or you know make sure your neighbor has some milk replacer, this always happens like Christmas evening and all the feed stores are closed so make sure you have this stuff on hand Heat lamp, hair dryer, warming box, I don’t care. Have a plan for how you’re gonna warm up a cold baby, if you find one Powdered sugar, I think is a good thing to keep in your lambing and kidding kit Even if you’re not comfortable putting the prolapse back in, if you put powdered sugar on there before I get there it’ll speed things up a bit and the faster the appointment is what you really want Prolapse retainer and harness, if you’re comfortable putting a prolapse back in Ivory soap, bag balm, I like to put in a kit because it helps if you’re having to hand milk mom very much, I like to put bag balm on the teats after helping. We’re not as good at milking as babies are so she’s gonna get kind of raw. Needle syringes, varying sizes, oral dosing syringe. You can give some oral meds Those are all kind of some basics that I would have in a kit and that those are all gonna be on my suggested lambing and kidding kit, along with some other things What you keep in your kit completely depends on your comfort level and if you’re willing to use it. Don’t, don’t buy it and put it in your kit if it’s not something you’re going to be able to use. So prevention and preparedness, um A lot of this is gonna depend farm to farm. Basics are definitely deworming and or FAMACHA Scoring. A month or a few weeks prior to lambing and kidding ValBazin is not safe for pregnant animals but everything else is. I like to get a CDT vaccine in my mamas, about a month before lambing and kidding- to increase the antibodies in their colostrum. So that’s one way we can affect the quality of the colostrum. um Bo-Se, I like to do that about a month prior to lambing and kidding as well so that’s when we’ll do the pre kidding or pre lambing vaccines. How much is going to depend on your herd, size of your animal, and then

let’s have a game plan and ready for the season is our kidding kit ready? Is everything that we need ready to go in there? Do we have jugs or stalls ready? Who are you expecting first? Who do you think might have quads because she’s had quads for the last four years? We need to keep it on her make sure she continues eating etc etc. We want to make sure everybody’s an appropriate body condition score. I like them to be a body condition score of three to three and a half. We don’t have time to talk a lot about body condition scoring tonight, obviously, but I’ll try to include- I don’t have anything in there right now, but I’ll try to include a body condition score handout so you can get an idea if you’re not already familiar with how to body condition score. But basically make sure they’re not too thin and not too fat and then plan to feed accordingly as they move through, so if you are having a a pretty tight lambing and kidding season, and everybody should be pretty close together and so you can stack up the amount of feed that you’re giving as you move through the trimesters and her energy demands are increasing, and then I think it’s a great idea, especially if you’re running a lot of sheep, um to ultrasound so that you can separate your singles from your twins and then separate your triplets from your quads So you can feed everybody a little differently. The ewe that’s got triplets needs a lot more feed than the one has a single. If you keep them all together you’re gonna under feed or over feed somebody and sometimes we just have to do that but if you have the capability and you have four hundred sheep it’s a good idea to try at least to get them separated out Okay so now we’re gonna open for all the questions from both presentations, please send me your questions I’m happy to answer as much as I can Okay so Jesi we’re gonna start back up at the top. Can you hear me okay? All right so let me get back up at the top here. Adam asked “Do you need to do regular cleaning when the wounds are left open, do you use the same technique?” Yeah I do better like, dilute iodine betadine flush, so if you’re leaving wounds open I flush them once a day and then apply a wound dressing. I don’t like to use an ointment over a puncture wound but some of the ointments are okay for open lacerations I like the vetericyn wounds brace to be honest, they have a little bit of like a gel so they stick pretty well but they don’t so they don’t run right off the wound but they don’t they don’t kind of suffocate the wound like an ointment will. So I like to flush it with betadine spring with vetericyn and then cover it with the. Okay the next one is from Jeff, he said “I guess none of the over-the-counter antibiotics are effective?” They are selectively effective, penicillin is some veterinarians first choice for Listeria cases still, so if you suspect a Listeria case, that was like our drunk goat, penicillin is a good thing to start them on. Is penicillin worth keeping on hand? Yes if you have a lot of listeria cases. If you have a lot of Listeria cases, we probably need to change something on your management Oxytetracycline, LA200, I think is a great antibiotic to have on hand because it’s over-the-counter, right, you can grab it, you can pick it up easily. It’s um very effective for things like foot rot and some of the basic issues um but it is an every other day antibiotic and so even for foot rot, even for something that la 200 is still very effective, I wind up using some of the other antibiotics more frequently because they last longer and so some people would rather use an antibiotic like practisin where they only have to give it like once every 10 days instead. So oxytectin can be helpful for a lot of things. Lacerations and injuries, it’s not my favorite, it doesn’t have a good spectrum Okay so Jess had two different questions The first one, “I’d love to hear a commentary on the best way to tackle an aural hematoma.” and then the second one “Is what diameter of PVC pipe for splints?” The aural hematomas are really tricky, I

try to leave them alone. I don’t bring them immediately if I can help it If it’s really causing a problem, most okay let me back up, most of these aural hematomas are in floppy eared goats but I have seen them in sheep. And the ones that I’ve seen in sheep, a lot of times were older or had like a tumor on their ear already. So if it’s a floppy eared goat, a lot of times the easiest thing to do if it winds up continuing to bother them, it’s really hot, it’s really full, it’s draining really bad. I will take, like one of those roll gauzes, those kind of squishy gauze um rolls like I use for the wounds and I’ll put it on the inside of the ear and then I’ll wrap the ear so it provides pressure for the ear. um Or I’ll flip it the ear up and tape it to the top of their head until it stops draining. um Sheep when they have a nice little stand out ear, if it’s really creating a lot of trouble and draining really bad, I’ll put a big slit in it. I won’t put just the hole in it and try to drain it completely out. The problem happens when they continue to kind of throw their head, they create more bleeding and create more trouble. So you need to put a big big slit in it, clean it daily, and keep the flies off of it. Try not to get the capaton spray in their eyes. Those are tough, there’s a reason that small animal vets have such a hard time with them in dogs, and that’s why dogs will come home from the vet with like 100 sutures in their tiny little ear because they’re trying to keep them from getting filled up We don’t typically do those types of fixes in the field, mostly because it’s cost prohibitive but we can, so we can treat an aural hematoma in sheep or goats just like we do in dogs And then I think the second question was the PVC pipe diameter, and it’s gonna depend on the size of the animal you’re trying to splint. And so I have I think, an inch, inch and a half, and two inch all on my truck, all split down the center and so run to Lowe’s, think about your baby’s legs, look at the PVC, and think if it was split in half, is it small enough after my padding that it won’t meet? I don’t want that PVC to completely meet around the leg because then it’s not it’s not doing enough support. So when you put the two pieces of PVC on, they need to not meet, it needs to be more of like a structural support on either side. It’s not a circumferential support. Okay Claire asked, “Would meningeal worms look similar to Listeria etc?” Yeah meningeal worm looks almost the same. We don’t see a lot of it here because we have so much things get deworm so frequently I almost never diagnose meningeal worms, except for in llamas and alpacas but it looks almost identical. Okay Jonathan asks “I’ve had issues with the boarding babies when using prohibit and both goats and sheep, have you seen this?” I have not, but it makes sense especially if you’re getting up close to the toxic dose range Yeah, I prefer somebody calls and asks what’s safe for a pregnant doe or ewe? I tell them to use Ivomec or sidectin Prohibit scares me in general, it’s great, it works perfectly except for when it doesn’t So that doesn’t surprise me. Okay Megan asked, “what is the most common cause of obesity in sheep?” Over feeding, people. Okay, Jamie asked “how long do you recommend keeping kids and their mother separate from the goat herd?” It depends on your facilities and your capability. um Sheep, I think do really well lambing on pasture. So when I was growing up we didn’t really keep sheep by themselves with their baby at all. Goats, I prefer for them to stay up with their babies at least four days if you can. If you have the space, if you have 20 goats that kidded on the same day and you don’t have 20 stalls, you can do what you do um but I like to keep them up for four days to two weeks, somewhere in that range. Okay Megan asked “How do you properly flush sheep sinuses?” Saline, so the sinuses where they have broken the horn off on the top, and you’ve got a

little like a little window into the frontal sinus from the, from the top of the head. What I like to do is use saline and flush in through the wound until it’s running clear out of their nose and it’ll it’ll run out the top of their head and it’ll run out their nose and so I I flush, depends on the size of the sinus, usually at least 60-100 cc’s every flush. And then I like to pack those so they don’t get as much trash in there. So if you have a nice clean pretty sinus in there and you’re not winding up with trash getting into the sinus through the wound, um you don’t you wind up not having a flush every day and it’s not as serious of a flush, so if everything looks nice and pretty in there, there’s no trash in there, I just flushed maybe 60 cc’s until it’s starting to come out the nose and call it a day. If it’s getting really contaminated and you’re having to flush a ton to get the sinus clean, you’re right or you’re really running the risk of having to deal with a sinus infection later on So I like to pack those with gauze, even if I don’t do a circumferential wrap, I’ll take some of my gauze and pack them into the sinus, not into the sinus but into the wound, if that makes sense Then I’ll tape it. Okay John asked, “Is bake deplete thymine like cordid?” It does not. Okay Allison asked, “Had two lambs with severe frothy bloat, emergency treatment with olive oil syringe in the mouth, they are now a couple months old still have episodes, none of the other sheep have. We’ve been mixing baking soda and the grain, anything else we can do?” I actually suggest not doing baking soda. I know that’s a very common suggestion, but it’s not my favorite. so Baking soda, if you think about you know like when baking soda interacts with vinegar it makes a lot of foam, so baking soda can do the same thing in the rumen. so I think baking soda gets recommended frequently for bloat because it can help release some of the froth, however it also can cause some bloat by itself, so that that’s why I don’t recommend the baking soda. Some people also recommend baking soda because they think it helps preserve the pH of the rumen and prevent some of the pH excursions and like the green overload cases, and in those situations I prefer to manage their pH with forage and nutrition, not with like a yeah something to try to change the ph of the rumen, from the outside like baking soda or milk of magnesia, some people use that. So anyways, that’s why I don’t recommend baking soda. um we do know that in some cases some animals are more prone to frothing bloat than others, so you’ll run into that sometimes where you’ll have like one chronic offender and it just takes until they grow out of it. um You can there are some mineral mixes that have a surfactant built in them, there are some blocks that have a surfactant built in them to help prevent frothy bloat. If you’re having trouble with two repeatedly I would probably look at where they’re at. Clover tends to be a really common problem with small ruminants and grain like a creep feed is a pretty common problem with calves. So if you’ve got a ton of clover in the pasture that they happen to be in, I’d move on until they get a little bit bigger a lot of these will grow out of it. And if they’re really hitting the creep feed pretty hard, I might stop free-choice creep feeding and just meal feed them, until they get a little bit older Sometimes getting those guys up in resetting the rumen can help too. So after her like a frothy bloat treatment, I prefer for them to stay like up on the dry lot or on a stall, so there’s no pasture and no feed, just hay for about four days, kind of get them reset and then reintroduce them slowly back to the pasture or the feed, whichever one they’re on. Okay John asked, “Can molasses-based feed cause polio?” Yeah molasses is in the sugar, as you would think it is, but most of those feeds that have a lot of molasses on them are also quite carby. Any feed can cause polio, their regular run-of-the-mill high protein goat feed if they eat too much of it can cause polio. So polio comes from that shift in the rumen microbes

which comes from a grain overload. It’s just much easier for that to happen with small amounts of corn than it is from a higher protein type feed. So corn is digested very rapidly in the rumen and that’s why it causes polio more frequently, the faster anything is digested, the bigger the jump in pH in the rumen. So corn is a pretty bad offender, crack corn is worse than whole corn. Peanuts and soy beans I think are running around the middle, mixed feeds and grains are usually somewhere around there and so anything like that that’s not a forage has the potential to do it, it’s just how much and how fast Sugar containing energy drenches can also do it, so I don’t like to give animals a ton of molasses if they’re not eating well. like if I’m trying to supplement energy, I don’t like molasses, I don’t like ensure, I don’t like some of those even some of the cow energy drenches will have like dextrose or glucose in them. I don’t like to use those if I’m worried about polio at all Okay so the next question is, “In sheep management, can we have a prepartum pin and feed an ionic diet to prevent metabolic diseases as we do with dairy cows?” Yes and no, so the canion and anion issue is not as big of a deal in sheep as it is in dairy cows, the reason that we focus on it so much in dairy cows is for the um the potential for ketosis after calving, right, and in sheep it almost always happens before lambing and so that’s not the focus, that’s not the goal for us trying to feed them in the third trimester. The goal in the third trimester is really to make sure that they’re eating the appropriate amount of nutrition to feed the baby, and we’re not under feeding them then Cows wind up with ketosis in that wonky energy demand later, which is why we hit them with that diet on the front end. Sheep are actually, I think easier to manage in this case because it’s just a matter of making sure they eat enough and eat a high-energy feed enough, and so maybe feed them once a day isn’t working anymore maybe when we get to the third trimester, we need to feed them twice a day, maybe our quads need to be fed three times a day Maybe we need to separate some special cases out. It just takes a little bit more tighter management. I hope that answered your question. Okay so we had a question come in about foot rot and my response back to that is we are going to be doing a whole separate webinar on hoof health, so we’ll talk about that in a different webinar and dive deep into all those hoof topics, so make it yeah that’s worth its own talk, yeah okay so the next one will be, “Will taking a bottle away cause pudding poop? They are, there two bottles a day now with hay and alfalfa pellets, if not what causes it? They seem fine otherwise” So they’re on two bottles a day and alfalfa pellets and hay. I’m gonna interpret pudding poop as diarrhea. I think that was probably what you were asking about It’s a little hard to tell if that’s normal baby poop or diarrhea, I’m going to assume it is diarrhea. So for bottle babies um, I like to, so when you’re picking a milk replacer I prefer a milk replacer that’s specifically formulated for these species. So if you’re feeding lambs, I prefer a lamb milk replacer. If you’re feeding kids, I recommend a kid milk replacer. If you’re feeding calves I recommend a calf milk replacer. I don’t like the multi species milk replacers. I don’t like milk replacers with a lot of soy protein. Soy can cause diarrhea outright, but a well-formulated species-specific milk replacer typically doesn’t cause any GI issues so I like the Doe’s match by Land O’Lakes. Kids really like that one, Land O’Lakes also

makes a sheep one that I have heard it is pretty good. um If they’re on two bottles a day, I’m assuming they’re a few weeks old at this point Instead of alfalfa pellets I recommend a starter feed for your species, so a lamb starter or a kid starter. Those are usually pretty high protein, textured feeds and they’re designed to help develop the rumen um and they’re gonna do that a little better than alfalfa pellets will. If you’re using an at home, I guess I should mention there are some at home remedies, for you know like mixing whole milk and buttermilk and I can’t remember what the recipe is now um, some of those can work well, some of them don’t have enough protein, and like I’ve heard of people raising kids on the bottle with just like cow’s milk, whole milk and I don’t recommend that It’s not enough protein, it is definitely not enough fat, um and so I do recommend a milk replacer. A lot of people are scared of milk replacers because they think they cause diarrhea, but the good ones don’t, you just gotta spend some money on them. I hope that answers your question Taking the bottles away should not do it. I guess let me back up, taking a bottle away should not cause diarrhea I don’t like to back off a bottle until I’m confident that they’re eating a good amount of feed, and I prefer them to be eating a starter feed rather than just an alfalfa pellet, so I’ll make sure that they’re eating the feed well before I stop with the bottle and I don’t like to feed lambs or kids more than 16 ounces at a time even when they’re big. So two 16 oz feedings a day shouldn’t be causing diarrhea. Megan asked “is grain a definite must for a healthy sheep diet, could they go without and still have a round diet?” Yeah so sheep, it depends on their stage, like lactation or gestation, and the availability of your forage. So you’re not going to like my answer because I am going to say it depends. If you have a pet sheep that is not making babies and not nursing babies and you’ve got good available forage, either through pasture or hay or both, that’s plenty If you were trying to take the same ewe through pregnancy with twins and nursing those twins and getting pregnant again, can you do that without grain? Probably but it’s gonna be hard and you need to be careful, so you need to make sure you have enough good quality pasture and enough good quality hay. It’s it’s tough to do, I think in the southeast with the parasite situation to do it without feed Ok so a question came in about, “Is feeding lespedeza pellets good for parasite control?” That’s a great question, it’d be a good question for a parasite talk. Yes if they’re also grazing lespedeza. So lespedeza, what it does for parasite control, is it’s its tannin concentration is high enough that it paralyzes the parasite, so doesn’t kill the parasite, it doesn’t technically deworm the animal. But it causes the parasite to stop feeding, so it stops sucking blood and protein and stop breeding, so it stops making eggs. Those are the two main things we’re worried about for parasites anyways, but for that to work the percentage of their diet that has to be lespedeza is ridiculously high. I want to say it’s like over 70% I cannot remember for certain but it’s very high, high enough that they’ve pretty much got to be grazing like a solid stand of lespedeza or only eating lespedeza hay on a dry lot for that to work. So just giving lespedeza pellets to a herd who’s on hay or pasture that’s not lespedeza based, it won’t make enough of a difference. I don’t think it’s worth the money. Yeah I would definitely second that it’s just kind of like one tool in the toolbox then you can’t just solely rely on that Okay Walter was the one to have the question about the diarrhea and I think that was the kids or the lambs, I can’t remember which one was which, but he said “I’m using a Land O’Lakes kid replacer, I’m having the problems with one out of the three, as a follow-up.” How old are they? Did he say? Um I don’t think so, so you felt typing in the chat window, six weeks I always start thinking about coccidia

maybe if it’s otherwise normal John said “Is it more effective to do scheduled deworming or on an as needed basis? Is it a common practice to use injectable cydectin or ivomec be used as a drench for goats?” These are good questions, um I recommend routine FAMACHA scoring, so I recommend regularly catching them up on a schedule, but checking their FAMACHA scores and only deworming the ones that need it. So I recommend regular checking, so sort of regular deworming, but I don’t recommend blankets of worming the whole herd every month. That’s that’s what we used to do, that’s what we all used to do, we dewormed everybody once a month um but that’s why we have so much resistance now. like Sanford used to work it’s just been overused. so the FAMACHA program was really developed in an effort to try to reduce the resistance of these dewormers, because if we keep going like we’re going we’re not gonna have any that work in a few years. We’re really gonna be up a creek. So I recommend regularly catching them up and regularly checking their FAMACHA scores and then deworming based on their score. The cow cydectin and ivomec used orally, so like using the cow cydectin pour on, orally and using the cow injectable ivermectin orally works. You need to make sure you’re calculating the dosage correctly. The next question is should we use a sheep drench orally, it’s designed to go orally already for a small ruminant, instead of a cow product that’s designed for a different route of administration? Probably, so especially for sheep it’s really hard to justify using a cow product when there’s a sheep product available. So technically speaking, we should probably be using the Sheep drenches Um effectively the cow products work by mouth and they are, I think used quite frequently. Okay, so we can take one more question and then we’re gonna close this webinar, so if you’ve got a burning question type it in the chat window and we’ll take one more question. Going once, going twice, anybody? Alright, well join me in thanking dr. Jesi Leonard for joining us tonight and we thank y’all so much for getting on here and we’ll be sending out information tomorrow so thank you all and have a great night!