Modernist Cuisine at Home | Lecture 11 (2012)

welcome to the lecture on science and cooking tonight we’re very very fortunate to have the author of Modernist Cuisine visiting us as always with these lectures we need to acknowledge our sponsors Jose Andres ins think food group Whole Foods on River Street who supply all the lab supplies because we eat our labs Alyssia is our Tolle tazza especially foods Boston Oya have all contributed to these lectures so tonight we’ll hear from Nathan Myhrvold but let me remind you that next week David Chang and Carlos Tejeda are talking and the following week is Ferran Adria you have to get tickets for him he’s the only person that tickets are free but you need tickets for that lecture so we have I really shouldn’t talk about science when Nathan is talking because he knows much more about science as I’ll prove to you in this little introduction but I thought we should have a little bit you know the tradition is we have a little bit of science as a warm-up act and this week what more could we do but talk about turkey you might at the end of this talk think that I’m a turkey but how long should we cook the turkey we’re going to cook turkeys on Thursday how long should we cook it well of course we just look it up right we look up cooking times but did you ever wonder where those cooking times came from well of course if you want to understand it you have to realize it if this is the turkey the heat is coming from the oven it’s flowing inwards it’s coming in and we need to somehow calculate how long it takes to cook the turkey so what we have to look for an equation Oh this is the wrong equation I’ll prove it to you this is the wrong equation this is something I learned from Nathan this is to remind you all about what equations could be like if we all were like Nathan but really this is the wrong equation this is a closer equation remember heat diffuses and this is a time that takes that tells us how it depends on a length and a distance but this is the actual equation of the weeks or now you can really clap this is a wreath this is a review we’ve talked about this equation before this tells us how long to cook the turkey it depends on how what temperature we want to cook the turkey to it depends on the temperature that you start with and the temperature that is you the oven is heated up to and also on this diffusion coefficient this diffusion coefficient is how heat diffuses through food and so we can look that up and here’s a list of measured diffusion constants this is on a book of a practical guide to sous-vide cooking and nathan has also studied a lot about sous-vide cooking has made measurements of this sort but notice that the diffusion coefficients really don’t vary by very much in fact they’re all very close to water and that’s perhaps not so surprising because food most foods are predominantly water and in fact if we were just to use the diffusion coefficient for water and calculate the times for cooking a turkey we would get a good value but you know look at the turkey we need to have something remember I showed you how we calculate it we need some distance so how do we do that well I’m a physicist so everything is just a sphere so we approximate a turkey by a sphere and so what we do is we take the mass of the turkey and we calculate it mass we assume the density is basically that of water and from that I can get a calculator size and then I can put that in the equation and I can calculate the times and look the times really are in very these are the calculated times the times are in very good agreement with what the recipe guidelines tell you for different weights of Turkey notice however it says that you start with a certain temperature you warm it up you heat to this temperature but then look what it says the temperature will

continue to rise as the turkey stands and the reason is that you have a difference you have a gradient of heat its hottest on the outside its coolest on the inside and if you take it out of the oven it has to come to some uniform temperature so the heat from the outside of the turkey will still continue to cook the inside of the turkey that’s the nature of the diffusion of heat through the turkey so really Nathan Myhrvold our speaker tonight started out even at a different level of physicists than me he started out really writing equations like this but he’s moved on to much much different things now he not only he was at Microsoft for a while he has a company called intellectual Ventures but he also does Modernist Cuisine these are some of the things of sous-vide cooking charts that we can find some of the things that he studied really bringing science to cooking and he’s written this really marvelous book which maybe he’ll tell us a little bit but a little bit about tonight so let me now introduce you to Nathan so I’m going to talk a bit about Modernist Cuisine the movement a bit about my first book and then also some about my most recent book monitors cuisine at home we just try to take that modernist revolution to home cooking so this was the book that the David was talking about here Modernist Cuisine five hardcover volumes plus one softcover volume and that was aimed at being a encyclopedic treatment of modern cooking techniques that came out long long ago in 2011 it took five years to do we as a follow-up to that we decided let’s we would try to make a book that was really about home cooking because a lot of the things that were in this book although they were fascinating and I totally recommend the book even people at home a lot of it wasn’t about how can I cook at home it was more about explaining the science of cooking or explaining the most esoteric cooking techniques so we came out with this this is a modernist treatment of home cooking it’s a four hundred and fifty some pages plus a two hundred twenty-eight pages so it’s a slim pamphlet like 600 pages almost 700 back when I first decided to write Modernist Cuisine I thought it was going to be huge and I thought huge meant 600 pages and now 600 pages in my little home book and like Modernist Cuisine it’s about using photography and as clear a text as we could write to explain how things work we cut things in half there’s a Viking stove we cut in half fortunately Viking donated that to us because they don’t work so good after you cut them in half particularly the gas part just doesn’t work so good it like modern is cuisine it comes with a washable kitchen manual because if you’re going to cook with it it’s going to get dirty the main book is sort of too pretty to take in the kitchen or to get to to get dirty this one here you can splatter stuff on and it washes right off one looks really big to us is trying to make a book that’s physical quality matches the quality of the food if you went to a fine restaurant and they served you out with paper plates and plastic knives and forks and the food would be the same but something would be missing from the experience so we thought it was important to have a physical aspect to the book that was good so it’s big it’s got great paper it’s got great ink that shows really what a nerd I am I’m going to tell you about how the images were reproduced this is standard halftone screening 175 lines and it looks like that if you blow it up a good art book will go to 200 lines but it still has this rectilinear grid it’s sort of a holdover from the past or and literally you made these by putting a screen on top of the the plate we’ve something called stochastic screening and stochastic screening just looks a whole lot better now that’s a technology you could only do if you have digital printing technology but hey we do we had a big focus on photos in the book because I thought it was important to show people what food looks like and well people say God what camera did you you so your pictures are so vibrant that’s not the camera it’s the ink it turns out you can’t represent every color with arbitrary set of inks so here’s a picture and where it’s gray is a color that ordinary printing inks cannot

reproduce here’s the full picture you can see it happens mostly in highly saturated colors look at the tomato look at the orange even that chartreuse green of the cauliflower you can’t get those colors unless you buy the fancy ink so what the hell it’s let’s buy the fancy ink one question I get asked a lot is how come in the 21st century we’re talking about ink and paper at all why not put this all online or make it digital and there’s two reasons the historical reason is when we started laying out the book and doing what was going to be the final layout which was several years back there was no iPad the only digital reading device was a Kindle and when you took this page you put it on Kindle it’s not so cool looking particularly in black-and-white these days you could do better with an iPad or the various other tablets but it’s still really small and so someday we’ll have a digital version but in the short term not because we set the whole thing up for really big really high-resolution beautiful photos that are really hard to navigate if you just take a PDF version and try it on a tablet which we’ve done it’s it’s not very usable so here’s some fun facts about the new cookbook two volumes nine point nine pounds unpacked 684 pages 228 of which are waterproof 23 chapters two hundred and ten thousand words for five recipes and variations 114 step-by-step photos we took eighty six thousand images and for fifteen hundred photos are actually in the book so lot of photos here is a comparison I’m kind of a nerd and kind of analytical says how I compare the previous book with a new book first book was 625 442 recently on Amazon second book much cheaper one hundred and forty and it’s been design T one dollars on Amazon that sort of fluctuates randomly well that was forty-one cents per recipe but what would you pay wait don’t answer it’s thirty five cents per recipe the first book is fifteen sixty three per pound fourteen dollars but guess what Parmesan cheese is $19 a pound so if you like Parmesan cheese you should like this book it’s a you know one of the big dilemmas that we had was the first book was what would we price it was clearly really big we had a lot vested in it what was a good price I was talking to a reporter when we announced this new book and they said you know it’s so cheap and then she stopped ourselves you know you’ve done you made a hundred and forty dollar cookbook seem cheap so thank God I did it in this order so suppose you put all the text in a single line in Microsoft Word now I don’t know why you would put all the text in a single line in Microsoft Word but if you did it would reach from here to MIT whereas if you put all of the text from modern the big book in line you could go all the way to Logan Airport and I’m not sure quite what that has to do with a book or with the science of cooking but but we thought it was cool so now I’m going to talk and switch from about the books to talk about Modernist Cuisine the movement and here there’s some ideas that are artistic and scientific the first is that art is what we do when art is the expression of human thought and emotion and art is something that’s generally considered very different than science but of course they both live here in this physical world art and science are both important I had a reviewer from the UK asked me about this in the first book and she was not that happy with this whole concept and she says what made you think you should bring science into the kitchen I said sorry science was already in the kitchen I just was taking the ignorance out because it’s true that science is about the laws of nature and the laws of nature apply in the kitchen just as surely as they apply anywhere else in the universe when you cook you are using heat and chemical reactions and also mechanical means to alter food in a way that makes it more tasty more nutritious possibly even edible at all and that transformation is about science but what you choose to do is about art or about craft it’s a those are aesthetic things

so the first book subtitle is called the art and science of cooking I think that cooking really is an expressive art but it’s really hard to do well at art if you don’t know how things work if you don’t understand what makes a building stand up how are you going to do the art of architecture not very well so I think the cooking really is an art and that Modernist Cuisine this is moderate the movement not the book is about melding art in science Ferran adrià who’ll be speaking later fron to me is an artist who creates a very expressive artistic creation that assaults and influences your thoughts and emotions just as surely as a painting or a poem or a film or music does but he does so with a knowledge of how that stuff works so a modernism is actually an old idea in art and here’s an example this is a painting from 1857 it’s called the Gleaners Jean Francois Molay and it was it typifies art in its period and academic phase in front art French art it was realistic a few years later van Gogh paints this okay same topic to people out in the field totally different now when this first came out it was shocking to people in fact here are two cartoons they’re from the Figaro in Paris in the 1870s around this time the first shows a pregnant woman who is being is going to go into an expression an Impressionists exhibit and the guard is saying madam it’s not safe for you to enter please back away because impressionist art was so ugly she would miscarry that is what a nineteenth-century audience would have understood from this cartoon the other cartoon shows Turk is as Turks bought several impressionist Kant canvases to be used in case of war these impressionist paintings were so ugly you can chase people off a battlefield by showing them now the funny thing about that is that Impressionists art is today maybe the most popular kind of art in the world if there is an impressionist show somewhere you’ll find the line stretches around the block people love it but at the time it was radically different it challenged this aesthetic notion and that isn’t the only places you know here’s a building here at Harvard classical architecture it’s got these columns that actually date in architecture all the way back to the Greeks and the Romans this is what classical architecture is like and that’s what a building at a fine educational institution all look like except down the street there’s a building that looks like this Frank Gehry’s strata Center is about modernist or maybe in post modernist architecture that says no we get to break rules we get to make a building that looks higgledy-piggledy like it’s all over the place and you use that aesthetically to challenge people’s ideas a lot of the food that’s called modernist does this at an aesthetic level it changes your idea of what food is supposed to be now challenging people’s ingrained ideas about food is a risky thing it freaks some people out you probably be better off trying to be controversial about say religion or politics than food with some people because we’ve got such a grounding in it when Ferran first started putting foam on things huge reaction which of course was why he was doing it because part of art is about deliberately breaking rules to make us understand we had rules there to begin with and so modernism regardless of whether it’s modernism in architecture or in painting or in food modernism is about breaks with tradition it’s about celebrating aesthetic values beyond simple realism people sometimes ask me does food have to be delicious I say well what do you think of bitters or what do you think a tonic water or what do you think of hobby are no peppers of course a lot of people love hobby are no peppers but if you gave a hobby are no pepper some of their super hot sauce to somebody who had never experienced him they think you poisoned them right and the same thing is true as bitter things in fact deliciousness is partially cultural it’s partially contextual it’s parsley partially personal and I don’t think food has to always be a conventional idea of delicious any more than every story has to have a happy ending and another part

of art modernism is embracing new tools new techniques trying to explore what’s possible and that’s been that’s true of architecture and painting and it’s now true of this so here’s an example Italian food is one of the most tradition oriented food national foods and there’s many elements of classic or contemporary Italian food but I just picked three here basil tomatoes and garlic and it’s really hard to imagine Italian food without basil tomato in garlic right wrong in fact the ancient Romans didn’t use all any any of those tomatoes were from the new world they didn’t have them the most common condiment for the ancient Romans was something called the common the common is virtually identical to Thai fish sauce it’s made by taking anchovies or other fish you seal them up in a jar and you put it in the Sun for a month just dandy stuff actually it’s delicious and fish sauce actually the Roman fish sauce lives on in Western cooking through Worcestershire sauce of all things a traditional British thing that is the direct lineal descendant of that uh the most common herb was lovage for the Romans they didn’t have basil they used tiny amounts of garlic extremely rarely so no basil no garlic but massive amounts of black pepper so if you had Roman cuisine ancient Roman cuisine is essentially nothing like current Italian cuisine now in between those two there’s actually medieval Italian cuisine I don’t have time to go through four go through all of that but he too was totally different and in fact in the Middle Ages the cuisine in Italy was virtually indistinguishable from the cuisine in England believe it or not and the first known recipe for lasagna comes from the form of curry which is the first cookbook ever written in English lasagna was an English invention so far as we can tell and the reason I bring this up is that cooking is all about change it’s all about evolution Italy was the last part of Europe to accept Tomatoes and with in Italy the the region of Italy that was the last to accepted it was Tuscany yeah it hurts your head to think that but it’s true Michael Pollan a great food writer I love his stuff but I got to call him out on this one thing he has this what he calls the great grandmother role and you should not eat anything your great grandma grandma would not recognize as food well my grandma was not big on sushi okay my grandma grew up on a farm in Minnesota not so much on raw fish or sushi not so much on hummus either okay those were completely alien not even grant grandma my grandma would not recognize either one of those as food but I wouldn’t like to be in a world that didn’t have those but you know we can keep going my great-grandma would not know what a hamburger is or a pizza so although it sounds great so well don’t recognize anything your great-grandma uses as food that’s it’s a natural reaction to the idea of industrialized low quality food that’s dished out so I understand totally rates coming from but in fact you throw out most of the best things we eat if you took this roll out and you can keep going back they said well what if great-grandma followed the great grandma rule well no ice cream amusingly no no cured sausages it turns out that there’s before the mid part of the 18th century there was no fermented sausages in Europe sopressata nada okay you couldn’t get that because that was actually invented in China of course if you keep going back essentially everything moves back to the single biggest event in cooking in terms of a worldwide event was when food from the new world came back to the old world so corn and tomatoes and chocolate gigantic change caused by that importation of a set of foods from from one continent to another that had been separated for for a really long time here’s another thing actually a great-grandma couldn’t have this is espresso beans being ground espresso was invented in 1900 and it was invented as fast food because guess what espresso means in Italian we have a high-speed

video camera that we just love so I now so what cut does modernist food me now well it means trying to do things that are really different we did a section on making potato chips in the first book now potato chip is actually a glass a solids a physicist would tell you a glass is very specifically this crystalline solids and crystalline solids have crystals in them but there’s a funny state of matter called a glass where the stuff may want to crystallize but it doesn’t quite and it makes this this very funny state of matter cold glass well starch can form a glass under certain circumstances and when you fry a potato that was thinly sliced the starch in there will make a nice crisp glass if you have a prawn cracker which is a typical Asian cuisine thing that’s made from typically tapioca starch that rise up and super crisp the same thing so I got this kick of saying let’s make a chip out of anything and I get on watermelon now watermelon is a very inauspicious thing to try to make a chip out of unless you give it enough starch so to make a watermelon chip you say well hey fruit and vegetables are filled with lots of vacuoles that have earn them they’ve actually quite porous so an apple is 50% err but that sounds crazy except there’s this thing actually around this time of year on Thanksgiving to Halloween that is a traditional American thing called bobbing for apples if it wasn’t hadn’t have air in it why would they float hmm they float nicely because they’re half air so if you then put them in a vacuum you can you can rupture a bunch of the vacuole walls and then you can infuse something else into it so in this case what we do is we take very thinly sliced watermelon we put it in a vacuum with a slurry of starch and it sucks the starch right up into it then you fry it up and you get very crispy watermelon chips now you can keep playing this game other ways we want to make the ultimate french fry one of the things we have is that any food no matter how humble it may seem any food is worthy of giving it your attention that’s worthy of trying to get make an ultimate version and maybe you don’t eat the ultimate version all the time but there is such a thing as an ultimate french fry so in this case what we did is we we steamed potatoes and we put them in an ultrasonic bath because so we use the semi cold cavitation bubbles to do something very similar rips the outside of the potato up and it infuses the starch in so we take starch and we put more starch into the the first fraction of a millimeter of the potato it makes it really crispy when you fry it and then they don’t get soggy like for hours here’s a cool thing this is something called the lit Leyden frost effect when this is liquid-nitrogen but it could equal equally be water if you’ve ever seen water splattered on a really hot skillet it bounces these little balls of water go everywhere because they seem to have no friction because they have no friction they actually float on a layer of gas so I thought we do a demo now for this demo it’s really important to have safety equipment I’m not going to use it this is liquid-nitrogen now I like to compare liquid nitrogen to fry oil oil in a deep fryer is typically about 325 degrees above zero Fahrenheit this is 321 degrees below zero so it’s as cold as least in the Fahrenheit scale it’s as cold as this hot so I’m going to pour some in here now liquid nitrogen is wonderful stuff we would just not cook without it anymore the there’s a service that delivers it in our area and when the guy delivers it to the house he says you know there aren’t any other houses on my route the first interesting thing is that nitrogen is 78% of the air around us so this is just something that’s already here but here’s how we can show this that’s light now so here is a flame and as we move it towards here goes out goes out because there’s cold nitrogen gas it’s in here so now it’s let’s go we it’s boiling because of course when you heat a water you heat

any liquid above its boiling point it boils very good so this is 321 degrees below zero it’s very dangerous so don’t ever do this now when people say isn’t nitrogen dangerous I always say try this with fry oil now there’s lots of fun things you can do with liquid nitrogen we use it for a couple of things again first of all lets you make things intensely cold second of all it makes you makes things that are cold oh there’s a little light and frost effect that the the stuff that we saw earlier you see how those little those tiny little balls just go shooting out they’re all floating on a layer of gas that’s also why I can do this notice I don’t leave it in there for very long I’m never touching the nitrogen liquid nitrogen what happens is I put my is you know it’s calming down it’s got a very cold layer of nitrogen gas in here but gas has very little heat transfer coefficients I very dense so when I put this in a layer of nitrogen gas is forming all around my fingers and it’ll stay that way for a while and while it stays that way hey my fingers don’t actually freeze so here’s a cool thing this is a balloon I blew up blew up so we’re going to put the balloon in here let it sit now what’s happening here is a is the universal gas law PV equals NRT so as we cool the balloon the air inside shrinks in fact the nitrogen wants to get us now watch it expand as a substitute for food I’m going to use a rose so we’ll put this in here for a moment liquid nitrogen is a great example of something which has been around for a very long time late 19th centuries when it was first produced the first suggestion of using it for cooking occurs in 1901 oh my name is mrs. Beeton Sydney this is Marshall mrs. Agnes Marshall was sort of the Martha Stewart of the 19th century she had a cooking school she about cookbooks she was very famous so she writes this book where she’s got a passage that she’d seen a demonstration of this which at the time was called liquid air she said wouldn’t it be great if you could use it for cooking and you could make ice cream at the table she was totally right but the first person to take that up and do it was actually a traditional French chef in 1979 in southwest France okay well I’m going to show you why we use it in cooking if you use it you can make things a little bit cold like I did with my fingers but you can also make it really really cold so you can go like that so this is like laughs if you can hear me crunch it hear it it is literally like glass because it’s it’s frozen so so so so cold so now we’ll go back here I’ve got a couple videos so we use it for lots of things here’s a cryo poaching cryo shattering we’ve a whole cryo almost everything for example to make a powder out of something there’s a parsley there you freeze it in liquid nitrogen put it in a food processor it’ll shatter into a powder kind of like the Rose did you can freeze olive oil or other oils and you just cool that you freeze a big pile of it you hit with a hammer and it looks like glass shards you put on the plate then it melts when it comes out if you want to little spheres you put a droplet and you let it fall in and if you have depending on the viscosity there’s a certain distance it’s got to fall for it to form a nice sphere and then it hits the a good nitrogen and it freezes here’s another thing you can do with it I’d like to say there’s a real cooking purpose to this but yeah it’s one of the unfortunate side effects of having a high-speed camera is pretty soon almost everything you need to do this to now watch this closely now we’re talking about a different aspect of boiling watch it and I’ll tell you what it is in a moment that’s popcorn now when a liquid boils into a vapor it expands in the case I’ll do this one more time here because that one was watch closely so there’s water in there

the water is boiling to steam right now it’s a tiny steam rock out of Fisheries form and there’s steam shooting out you can watch it expand to try to leave the pressure but ultimately it fails in fact when you boil water to steam it expands in volume by about a factor of 1,600 that’s how prawn crackers puff up that’s how a largely how a souffle rises that’s how chicharrón or pork fried pork rinds get to be puffy it’s all because this effect when you boil water to steam well there’s tons of other things I’m just going to hit on a few of them grilling is a fascinating deal it turns out that most of the science of grilling was the flavor of grilling comes from this this is fat dropping down onto a hot oil coal and it flares up and that flare up produces most of the characteristic flavor of charbroiling people say oh well should use mesquite charcoal it doesn’t matter what matters is that the fat drips on the coals this is sort of a close-up for those burgers to taste like they are grilled you’ve got to have the fat from below you put the Fatima kidney the fat has to drip on to heat but that’s below but the heat above then you get broiled burgers those are good but they taste different and the difference is in complete combustion and paralysis of that stuff so people sometimes wonder why they’re grilled zucchini doesn’t taste that great there’s no fat in a zucchini so our solution is simple get a squirt bottle fill it full of oil and squirt it on there it works like a charm so that’s what this says so it’s not about the the charcoal the charcoal has essentially no flavor didn’t matter what it was made of originally yeah made it into charcoal which means there’s nothing left so it’s all of the things various sugars and other things contribute also to that thing but the single biggest aspect is fat going so that’s how you get the complex flavors another interesting thing is proteins and how proteins coagulate under heat this is eggs where the eggs are at different temperatures of course it’s a raw egg over there as you increase the temperature both the yolk and the egg white have different proteins and they coagulate at different temperatures and so a lot of egg cookery is about how you deal with that fact that you’ve got very different temperatures for the – um what most people like is to have a yolk that’s soft and runny or this fur there’s a bunch of dishes we want a soft runny yolk but you want to have a firm white unfortunately it goes the wrong way around if the yolk gets hard first which is why there’s a bunch of techniques that you can do to try to make sure your yolk isn’t fully hot or isn’t too hot before you heat the outside but once we here’s another gratuitous high-speed video so this is frying an egg now do you see those bubbles forming those bubbles are steam that’s the same expansion factor as it as it gets hot a state of a bubble of steam nucleate and it grows and that’s what makes all those bubbles that’s what the sizzle is from so when we started doing this work on the temperature of eggs we realized that custards really had a lot of science in them now a custard is when you take milk or cream or some other liquid and you mix either whole egg or egg white or egg yolk in with it well depending on how much egg you add that will clearly affect the texture but also depend on how much temperature you apply to it you’ll affect the temperature so we did hundreds of experiments to say what are the different combinations of concentration and temperature to get you a certain effect now I call this modernist by attitude there’s nothing modern about this Escoffier could have done this right all it requires is a thermometer so it’s a very simple thing but if you have an attitude of being scientific you have an attitude of using empiricism then absolutely you’d say yeah let’s go do this so we did it and this is a great reference for anybody trying to make a custard and if you depending on on what else you’re doing you might choose to use a different temperature or a different concentration of egg so modernism doesn’t depend on fancy ingredients or equipment although I love those things it depends on stuff like this and so this is one form of a custard this is a creme anglaise put

onto berries but here’s another one this is our striped omelet we make omelets in the oven the reason to make them an oven is you can control the temperature and therefore the texture much better than you can in a pan and if you understand that custard table you can get the perfect texture every time and then once we started making them the oven I said Haley we can make them strike and that’s totally gratuitous once again but when I went to chef school in France many years ago we learned how to make a cake called biscuit or com’d which is a striped cake you take two different colors of cake batter well hey if we can make an omelet let’s make a stripe download’ so this is a striped omelette this one here the nice black stripes means I use black truffle more often we use mushroom but we have also used tomato and other things there’s another thing here’s scrambled egg foam and this is certainly served in a way that you wouldn’t find in a typical Denny’s if you went in a certain task force can’t scrambled eggs it’s a way of taking scrambled eggs and trying to put them in a context where they’re not obvious they’re scrambled eggs okay here’s another gratuitous video you know you have a high-speed camera you got some eggs pretty soon someone says you know my cousin has a gun they say if you want to make an omelet you got to break a few eggs that’s a pretty dramatic way to make them here’s another interesting story this is a chapter now from the the new cookbook we had one recipe like this in the first book we expanded into whole chapter and this is soups inspired by pretzels that’s sounds strange but you know pretzel is really brown on the outside it’s brown because when you make a pretzels you dip them in an alkali solution lye and water or baking soda and water because in an alkaline environment the Browning reactions caramelization about most in my yard reaction happens at lower temperature so when you cook those pretzels who baked them in fact they get really dark sighs reading yeah effect I don’t know what else it works for so we started making caramelized carrot soup and then we kind of got carried away that’s sort of a theme with us we said let’s use a pressure cooker and if we can if we add the baking soda maybe we can get the carrots to caramelize in a pressure cooker and in fact that will work so inside a pressure cooker it’s higher pressure than out here that means that you can make water 250 degrees before it boils and do you have a hundred percent relative humidity that that’s sort of important then if I lower the pH I can actually Brown the things inside that and in fact you can brown all the way through and so here’s here’s an example it makes an amazing carrot soup and then we said hey let’s try it with broccoli let’s try it with this then we started rendering fat with it if you render fat with a little bit of baking soda in a pressure cooker it gets us an amazing roast flavor to it so it’s a great example of using a couple of simple principles one discovered long ago by whoever invented pretzels and then chart explaining using it in a broader context there’s the soup here’s a whole bunch of variations to the soup artichokes cauliflower broccoli greer corn apple parsnip mushroom it all works they get different colors they get different degrees of roasted or browning flavors so roast chicken is another thing we devoted a chapter to in the new book roast chicken is fundamentally a contradiction in terms you want to have the breast meat in particular be juicy and it’s very easy to dry it out but you like the skin to be crispy but those are at odds is to get the skin crispy if you get it really hot but it’s touching the breast so what do you do so along with our philosophy of saying hey any dish can be elevated and there’s this sort of an ultimate expression of it we said let’s make the ultimate roast chicken well in order to do that you need chickens that are junkies so there’s a whole bunch of steps to this one step is you stick your fingers under the skin and you push the skin away that’s done in traditional Chinese cooking for Peking Duck well brining is a terrific method for for making a pro any kind of meat protein more juicy salt the salt ions alter the proteins and they make them hold more water very straightforward there’s a problem the skin is full of protein – and juicy skin is called rubbery skin so although it works great to brine a whole bird the skin gets

horrible so we said no enough of that so we take our brine and we inject it into the meat and we careful not to get any of it on the skin even by these syringes in any kitchen store so it’s actually not that hard to do we also then hang the bird or his injection brining this explains what I just said we hang the bird like this in the refrigerator for a couple days now the reason you do that is twofold one is there’s a whole religion about trussing chickens you have to trust the chicken I can’t quite do it here fortunately but you bring the legs up and you’re all in a little ball it’s totally the wrong thing to do you want the legs to get more heat not less heat and by bunching them up it’s harder for the heat to penetrate because of the diffusion things that they’ve started this with the other thing is if you hang it in your kitchen uncovered the Skip dries out but you want the skin to dry it off you want it to be crispy then you bake it for four and a half hours at low temperature then you put in a hot oven and ultimately it looks like this now in a modernist context you could also say well why don’t you just pull the skin off cook it separately and put it back on we do that too it’s much easier but we thought it was cool to try to make the traditional roast chicken as a whole bird that’s what it looks like when we serve this our tasting menus we like to say that it’s grandma’s roast chicken so we served on grandma’s plates for the sauce we also do another thing it’s interesting most sauces in French cuisine are finished with butter or cream that’s taste wonderful the trouble is it tastes like butter and cream if you’re making a chicken sauce would you like it it tastes like chicken so we always thicken our sauces with rendered fat from the same thing so in this case we take rendered your chicken which in Jewish cooking is called schmaltz so we take our malts and we thicken with that then if we’re really being fancy we pressure render it so we get this wonderful roast flavor one of the differences between Modernist Cuisine at home and the big book is that the modest cuisine at home has simpler recipes in terms of the technology simpler ingredients but also a different style of food in our big book we cover all kinds of cuisine including recipes from Heston Blumenthal and Ferran adrià Jose Andres many of almost everybody I think in your in your whole program here but people don’t eat that kind of food every day so in modders cuisine at home we said let’s try a less formal kind of food so we have a whole chapter on mac and cheese and the key thing with mac and cheese is that cheese is an emulsion ok milk is an emulsion to begin with when you coagulate it’s still an emulsion it’s just sort of a frozen emulsion when you melt it the fat separates and you’ve probably had a pizza that has like a thin layer maybe not so thin layer of oil on top and the cheese gets really kind of gritty and stringy underneath well you don’t want that so typically when you make a cheese sauce you put in starch for in search flour something like that to make a wet in French Chicago called a bechamel sauce the trouble is the starch gets in the way of the flavor of the cheese so you get a starchy gooey kind of sauce not a cheesy kind of sauce well it turns out in 1911 a man named James Kraft at the time was a small cheese merchant in Chicago Illinois he owned one horse and he had a wagon and he took his cheese around the trouble is no one had a fridge so the cheese would often spoil this is how can I make canned cheese well make canned cheese you had to to make cheese that was heat stable he found out how to do it got a patent that led to the Kraft Food Empire and Velveeta sometimes things go amiss it turns out if you add a small amount of an emulsifying salt it changes the balance of ions and it actually stabilizes the emulsion so that’s what we do here’s here’s the cheese here’s what happens it stays perfectly gooey and melty and there’s almost nothing in it except a tiny my the emulsifying salt typically we use sodium citrate sodium citrate is in every grocery store in America or just about because it’s used in Passover it’s called sour salt you can also order on the internet and so forth well then once you’ve got a melty cheese recipe you use it all over the place so we have a chapter on grilled cheese sandwiches and then of course grilled cheese sandwiches are pretty plain so we started putting other stuff in them and then melted cheese sandwiches other

stuff isn’t so cool so we suspended gravity to take these photographs steak is another great topic I’m just going to flip through some of these so you don’t have time to go through all of them we have a great recipe for picnic cooking steaks on a picnic or a tailgate party you just put hot water in a big cooler and put the steaks and Ziploc bags and throw it in a few hours later you’re it’s done so you can you can go rather than having a cooler you’re actually using it as a heater it’s a sous-vide without the equipment we have a bunch of recipes for carnitas for braised short ribs if this doesn’t make you hungry you’re a vegan and in fact even if it does may even if you are vegan it may make you hungry chicken wings that’s another example of having less formal food we have a whole chapter on chicken wings but then we got carried away and we have sort of any kind of food on a stick so saute and Scoon a and shish kebab and this is our food on a stick chapter that didn’t sound so good for a chapter name so we called it chicken wings we love talking about ingredients a question I get asked a lot is isn’t modernist cooking the total end of farm-to-table see now anybody who’s a cook who really cares out the food wants great ingredients and we do too so we when we cook dinners ourselves we work with local farmers we try to get the freshest ingredients possible ingredients are really where it all starts but ingredients aren’t just the ingredients you traditionally use so we have a section of this chapter called walk on the wild side where we say regardless of what ethnicity you are regardless of what your cooking tradition is go in those other aisles or go to that part of town where those people that are different than you live and shop in some of their things go to a West African market go to a Mexican market or an Asian market there’s fruits and vegetables and all kinds of cool ingredients and you owe to yourself to explore them we have a big chapter on eggs on salads and cold soups so I one question I get asked is how do you get a photograph of raspberries plunking into this raspberry soup it’s a cold soup so perfectly the answer is you start with about 5 pounds of raspberries and you drop them two at a time and you take the picture and you know out of a couple pounds of raspberries you’ll get one that looks like this the other thing that’s interesting is that we made a mess so you don’t have to these are the these pictures take a lot of effort to do here’s our chapter on salmon we’re in the northwest so there’s a lot of salmon there we have a chapter on corn corn is maybe one most interesting single grains in the world it probably feeds more people than any other grain feeds more animals than any other grain and I like to say it’s the first example of genetic engineering it’s one of the enormous cultural achievements of the new world is that people probably in northern Mexico but no one’s absolutely sure took a grass called teosinte which is a pathetic little grass a little bit this tall it’s like got a couple of those seeds and through lots of selective reading they turned it into this which feeds the whole world now it’s one thing to say hey those of us in this room probably eat foods from all over the world it turns out the poorest people on earth also eat non-traditional foods the biggest staple grain in Africa is corn from from the Americas the second biggest staple in Africa cassava that’s from Brazil custards and pies in our big book we don’t do much in the way of pastry baking or dessert but we decided we had to do it for the home book so we have a chapter on custards and pies here’s our cooking lab and one of the things I wanted to tell you a little bit about is what we’ve done in between books after we finished our first book we had this whole team we had this big lab what are you going to do with it so we hit on this idea of cooking for people because cooking is intrinsically about sharing you cook so someone else eats it and almost anyone who loves to cook loves to see somebody eat that food well for five years making the book we cooked mostly for ourselves and the camera we hadn’t cooked for other people so we started doing a tasting menu dinners and here’s the menu

there’s no choice you get all of this and you may think that’s really a lot but this is page one I’m not kidding it keeps going typically we do 30 to 35 courses now fraud audrey has served me over 50 courses once so I’m haven’t quite gotten up to that level and the idea here is to show people a whole range of different kinds of cooking different ways which modernism is evolved some of these are incredibly intensely modernist and they look like Klingon food or what that might be they don’t look like they’re it’s food for you from Planet Earth and it’s not supposed to be it’s supposed to be unusual the last thing we do is something called gummy sweets those are worms now they’re not made out of worms but I found this cool place on the internet that sells molds for fishermen to make their own worm lures god damn we got to cook with this and of course it’s perfectly setup to use a gel so we make these usually olive oil and vanilla or a variety of other flavors so we make gels but we make people eat worms at the end so here’s a time-lapse video that we did of one of these dinners it’s kind of a big production we understand why restaurants don’t set up all from scratch every day and it takes about 3 to 4 hours for people to eat the 35 courses the thing that’s been interesting about this is that unlike the book we had direct feedback people love it sometimes they don’t love it I also get a lot of insight about work I worked in restaurants before but I never really run a restaurant we had this one dinner where we had a course we were super proud of and it went out and several people said it was fantastic and then when a woman at one table motions me over just I just want you to know this was a complete aberration what on earth you’re doing she just just decides to dress me down in front of everybody oh boy I’m glad I don’t do this for a living it’s actually really tough so we’ve Thomas Keller has come Wolfgang Puck has come with tons of other people Chris Kimball from America’s Test Kitchen has come for dinner and we found that it’s really interesting to try to learn by cooking as well as by doing all the experiments that we do we’ve learned a tremendous amount from these dinners about pacing about what people liked about how you can delight people how you can turn them off so that’s it for except for questions so we have some time for some questions that was the 308 photos of the cross sections for the pots of food and how do you take the pictures with suspended gravity for the sandwiches so hey I have a whole section on how we describe this the simple answer is we really cut things in half and we make a hell of a mess so a lot of the stuff we simply cut something in half and we we deal with it we have a couple of pictures of a barbecue that’s been cut in half and people say well what keeps the coals from falling out as oh that would be Johnny you know they’d fall out and these got tongs and he puts them back and they fall out again and we have a great picture of doing a pan saute and a professional chef doing the saute is got the pan and you kind of go like this in this motion where you roll the things up and so we have to do with half a pan how do you do that the answer is it goes in the floor okay you put a tarp down you pick it up you do another one did we get it and a lot of it involves making a hell of a mess and making sure that the you get the right shot because our motto is it only has to look good for a thousandth of a second for the suspending gravity shots generally what we do is we have something propping them up usually from behind a few times we’ve done it where we take things we actually drop them but that it’s easier to space them so for those grilled cheese sandwiches and stuff there each is a

little platform behind when we’ve got a liquid that we’re containing we typically will take the the the pot that we’ve cut in half and we glue a piece of Pyrex to it then you take the picture the great thing when you cut something in half you have a second half left so you put that in the same position you photograph that and then you just copy the bits right from the edge so it’s very much like in spider-man where spider-man flies to the air well of course that’s really a stunt man says supported by a wire Lynch it digitally take the wire out and magic it flies so you know that some of the equipment is really hard to cut in half and we’ve got a whole machine shop though so we we kind of persevere and have done it also some of its really dangerous what we discovered why people don’t fry with a wok cut in half for example one of our guys lost his eyebrows that way I how much of monitors cooking at home is new material and how much is distillation from the other book well distillation is covered in the first book but no that isn’t what you man uh-huh so at some level it’s all new and it’s all new because where there was a recipe or a technique we did a bunch of work to adapt it to things you could get in a grocery store and equipment that you’d have at home so our roast chicken recipe is almost completely different as an example the carrot soup changed quite a bit in the first version if you really followed the original recipe totally you needed a centrifuge and a bunch other stuff so we we’ve said so every recipe is new maybe a third of them have a parallel in the first book and that there was something there that there was some relationship to it and probably two thirds 60% something like that is absolutely brand-new with so much experience in the science of food what’s your favorite emotional food memory hmm well I cooked I was 9 years old I told mom I was going to cook Thanksgiving dinner and I went I dollar shopping myself I would let mom in the kitchen and that was a great memory because it actually soared it kind of worked I mean not as well as I would do today but my favorite dish was one I made the next year when I decided to cook Thanksgiving dinner and we had a dish that was truly modernist in spirit and it was called firecracker surprise and there was a we got when those cloches a bell that you put over and my brother helped me with this right so I was 10 he was 8 he got to lift the Bell off dramatically while I dropped a lit firecracker under the table it was definitely surprised but we nearly lost one of my maiden aunts or my mother my mother’s maid naughty madela wasn’t so cool with that but but that was a modernist thing to do to shock and surprise somebody hi can you tell us what your favorite meal is for breakfast lunch and dinner so my favorite breakfast is scrambled eggs that we make from a recipe in the book but I’ll tell you the essence of it right now so scrambled eggs and omelets and things like that you have this problem that the omelet or the egg will set too hard now you can use temperature to adjust a little bit but also helps if you add fat a traditional French thing to do would be to add a little bit of cream or some melted butter to whip in with the egg but now the butter is new like egg so next time you’re cooking scrambled eggs or an omelet or something else if you’re making three eggs use two whole eggs and one egg yolk so throw one egg white away now if you care about calories you didn’t make it any higher fat than the three eggs would have been you actually lost a few calories by taking out the white not much fat but a few calories that changes the ratio and it’ll amaze you it’s got totally it’s much better texture it’s much yellower now you can go crazy and keep adding more yolks and at some point it gets really orange and then it’s got a completely different texture so I do that and then I generally cook it because I have a steam oven at home I generally cook it to about a hundred and sixty-four degrees that’s perfect scrambled egg texture for me I mean you asked lunch I don’t think I sent have a single favorite lunch and for dinner I love to eat all kinds of interesting food you know one of the key things about food is that we all love variety and people said well as

modernist cooking going to take over no cooking is going to take over in fact today in Boston or in Cambridge either one there’s a greater variety food now than ever before in history if we look 10 years from now there’s going to be even more now for a while we got that extra variety by importing foods hey let’s have Italian food hey there’s something called sushi and sushi was initially weird you know raw fish now sushi is in every strip mall in America just about and the ones it isn’t and it’ll be in but the interesting thing is as a planet we are running out of stuff like that people love to talk about all of the limits of Earth and we’re running out of things but it turns out we’re running out of cool cuisine because there’s not 10 more great things like sushi so sushi was developed by a whole set of people improving it innovating preserving what was best but changing over a period of hundreds of years so you’ll make one of those overnight and there aren’t ten more of them so I don’t know if there’s Tibetan food or Nepalese food in Cambridge probably there is there’s probably someplace that doesn’t have a recipe in Cambridge it doesn’t have a restaurant excuse me they will but that alone isn’t enough to satisfy our incredible insatiable urge for variety which is why modernism exists that’s why invention exists that’s why some of those things I showed you using Tomatoes inventing corn inventing ice cream all of those things were people creatively coming up with a new idea for cooking we’re going to keep doing that and so my favorite lunch and dinner is eating in some really interesting place doesn’t really matter whether it’s cheap or expensive or it’s low-tech or it’s it’s high-tech it’s experience seeing somebody else’s vision of flavors indexers long-winded answer sorry so for your new book I was wondering what your criterion are for what’s a successful recipe how did recipe get into your book so I’d love to go through lots of discussion of an analytical process and all these other things but basically I had to really like it and we wanted to illustrate a bunch of basic concepts so we had so with the new book we said let’s have there’s a chapter called basics and there we have basic stalks dressing salad dressings and a bunch of things are about here’s some really basic building blocks that every cook oughta learn how to do that we think we know how to do maybe better and more conveniently and so forth and there the goal isn’t to say you must make exactly our stock but teach you how to make a stock teach you how to make a salad dressing to judge you those things then we tried to have chapters there’s 23 chapters in the book and I tried to cover not everything but a whole bunch of things that we think would be interesting for home cooking so the chapter on chicken wings and snacks on a stick well that’s because there’s a whole lot of great cuisines that have created that we thought we would honor that with this and it’s something that people really do eat we did steak pretty simple thing now once you do steak you say okay we got to throw in pork chops and rack a lamb and a couple of other things they’re all about cooking relatively tender meats quickly to make a steak like thing and we have a whole bunch of different techniques one of my favorite ones in the steak technique is great for people that have frozen food and they forget to defrost it because you cook the steak directly from frozen it works spectacularly well so you have this problem when you cook a steak that when you cook with high heat you get a temperature gradient and you get those bands of gray meat on two sides typically those bands of gray meat are 25 to even 30 percent of the volume of the steak so you spend a lot of money for steak and if you want it medium rare you have to put up with these two bands away done so it turns out if you take a cast-iron pan you pin you it takes a lot of heat doesn’t have to be cast there but they’re really cheap and they take a lot of heat you can’t break them so you heat it up super hot with some high-temperature oil in it take the steak out of the freezer put it right in and you sear it until it’s really nice and and brown on both sides and believe it or not with a decent burner you can sear it as brown as you want it’ll be hard as a rock inside then you put it in your oven at 250 degrees or ever lowest your oven will will go and each sort of check it periodically it’ll probably take an hour to two hours and it’ll be perfect inside and by just probing it with your nook with if you have sous-vide equipment you could also cook it sous-vide and that would be another whole thing but if you have sous-vide equipment you can approximate all that

plus if you’re a dork like me and you forget to take the steak out in time hey it’s okay I don’t have to let it defrost overnight okay um it’s encouraging to see we’re physicists can go so I was wondering what is like the most interesting non-obvious application of some physics principle thermodynamics mechanics that you’ve discovered in this whole process oh that’s a good question um it all depends on he clearly has his a physicists cuz he said non-obvious uh-huh besides everything being spherical that’s another physics peek thing um probably the one that’s you could argue of this is really interesting or not but I’ll tell you anyway that has to do something called the the stall and barbecue if you cook traditional southern barbecue that has a big hunk of meat like brisket or pork shoulder or whole hogs there’s this phenomena that people notice for eons ago that the temperature will rise then it will stall it will stop rising for hours then we’ll go back up and if you search on the internet you’ll find thousands of pages devoted people arguing about what makes the barbecue stall I’ll damn it we figured out what makes the barbecue stall and here’s the basic idea people had lots of theories and most of the theories were that you were making a chemical change in the meat you were particularly you were taking collagen and turning it into gelatin and so you were absorbing the energy in there doesn’t work it’s a lot of energy you got this big chunk of meat in in hot smoker oven and it’s not temperatures going up for four hours that’s a lot of energy so something is cooling the hell out of it there’s only one thing it could possibly be and that’s water evaporation because when water evaporates into steam or water vapor a the degrees of freedom will go way up thermodynamically you have enormous Lemoore entropy costs a lot of energy to do that water is particularly good with that because water has these funny hydrogen bonds so here’s a interesting we’ll go back give me an excuse to play with liquid nitrogen this stuff is has a boiling point of 321 degrees below zero it’s molecular weight is actually similar to water if water have the same properties the modern molecules have the same properties is the nitrogen molecules water to would have a boiling boiling point down there and the life would not be possible what makes water stick to itself so well that it’s got a boiling point that’s hundreds of degrees hotter is semi cold hydrogen bonds water monkeys love to stick to each other and that loving to stick to each other is hard to break so huge that energy so to prove all this we took a brisket we cut it in half we wrapped one up so it couldn’t evaporate we had the other one bare we stuck them both full of temperature probes and sure enough there’s no stall at all in the one that was covered and a huge amount in this now the part I love about this is one of the traditional techniques for dealing with the stall is to mop more sauce on this does not work okay this is like heating something up by running a garden hose on it okay they actually cool it down but because that wasn’t realized so it was certainly not obvious to everyone who was in that field for you know fifty years that people have argued about this you’ve had several very successful chefs come and eat your food as you mentioned at the annuit Thomas Keller I was wondering if you could tell us what are a few of the reactions both good maybe not so good that you’ve got into Modernist Cuisine well there’s in terms of good people like the book they like the book and they like our food and it was important for us to cook for people like Thomas Keller because we didn’t have any street cred and there was maybe they didn’t worry about it but we worried the people thought well ok they can make these cool pictures but does their food actually tastes good so I think we convince them the food tastes good after Thomas came he sent the head chef and had two pastry chef from every one of his restaurants for subsequent dinners so maybe that was so he gonna come back and say see what dorks they are but but I’m thinking not because he wrote the preface to my new book so that was both very gratifying but it also helps us you know ground it in something that says yeah actually aesthetically this is something that that’s reasonable in terms of negative reactions there’s two kinds of negative reactions we have well one set of

negative reactions is to the book and most of those negative reactions are from people that have never seen it but it turns out never seeing something doesn’t mean people won’t judge it and in fact there’s a saying don’t judge a book by its cover you know why the expression exists because people judge books by its cover now of course we have a nice cover but but all the same you know well it was announced that the price was six hundred and twenty-five dollars it outraged people I talked to this one person who a journalist who said no book is worth that I said well they made me mad cuz you might say my book is not worth that maybe my book isn’t worth that but if you say no book is worth that you’ve tried to cheap an all of knowledge and by the way have you bought any text books recently you know head to some places sells textbooks and buy the same weight as my book as a my book and see what the hell it cost you and they don’t have cool pictures they don’t have chrome eccentric inks or stochastic screening but it sort of offends people sensibilities another way it offends people sensibilities is is that there is an aesthetic idea that somehow science is bad for cooking in some way I get that this is like the question of what made you put science in the kitchen it’s but it’s often expressed more negatively as you’re taking this soul out of cooking I said how so and people say well sous-vide sous-vide takes the soul out of cooking I said well look sous-vide and its essence is about using a digital thermostat to accurately control temperature so I don’t overcook the stuff and turns out that little simple trivial digital circuit is a way better thermostat than you or I will ever be but why is it soulful for me to sit there being a thermostat I mean you could do it you put a thermometer in there you have a little dial and oh it’s going up I got to turn it down that’s soulful so I just don’t get it only woke eight well they said but the results are perfect every time that’s boring I said so it’s soulful if you overcook it or undercooking we ought to tell Thomas Keller and Elan do cos they’re not soulful because those guys are so damn good they never do you know this whole set of things and to me there is I understand why people say it because they feel threatened that this is going to cheapen this thing that they they honor and love but to me soulfulness aesthetic expression that’s in how you combine flavors and textures and what you choose to serve there’s a huge element of that which is purely aesthetic it’s not about you know the thing that makes cooking soulful is not well that was it you know one hundred and thirty one point two degrees no that’s not soulful that’s technology and tech technology allows me to do it more conveniently and easier and cheaper and better why not do it but there are people who do that and then they try to they try to make a big controversy about it there was a radio ship program that interviewed Alice Waters and then many months later about one set of topics not about my book but Bolivia to me then they cut it together to make it seem like Alice was arguing with me and that you know she was they asked her about science and she was a little bit dismissive of science and some other but in very general terms so this this airs actually in New York the next day I get this call from Alice she’s but I love the book they didn’t know this because the book my book at some level is about loving food and even if Alice Waters doesn’t cook every recipe doesn’t use a center fusion I uses other things she loves food too and showing people how cooking works getting people in touch with cooking in some level I think is a great thing so yet we’ve had a bunch of negative reactions but you know if you don’t upset somebody you probably didn’t do anything very important you know one is run cartoons like those show do the impressionist paintings they have run things like that about Ferran and other modernist chefs yeah if you don’t shake things up a bit probably not going to get any you didn’t do anything worthwhile let’s have one last question at the back where can I try your tasty menu okay I’m sorry kid where can you try chasing them well so you know pop-up restaurants have become all the rage and those dinners like the the one I showed are kind of the next evolution beyond popup you can’t make reservations because you have to be invited and you can’t pay because you’re our guests

I think it’s that last part is going to limit its popularity so we’ve done them roughly once a month but not cluster that way we’ll do we’ll do like two a week for for a few weeks and then we’ll not do them every now and then we’ll cook an event some other place Charlie Trotter retired after twenty-one five years actually and so we cooked for the last dinner the last big celebratory dinner there so every now and then we do things like that the best way to eat this kind of food is to find great inventive chefs and there’s many of them all over the place as many in Boston a Jason Bohn dibond ear is very farm-to-table oriented buddy cooks with an eye towards technique he’s come out for one of these dinners Tony maws at Craigie on main cleo there’s tons of restaurants in Boston that at one level or another are playing with some aspect of this modernist movement and then around the world there’s more so mostly you got to go to those guys but I don’t know every now and then maybe we’ll do a dinner so you may not be able to get invited to the dinner but you can get books signed at the back after we give Nathan one more hand you