Higher Education and Inequality in Brazil

Thank You Jennifer thank you for the invitation it’s an honor to be here think we’re married to come and all of you I imagine this sandwich is very good because many people in the room so I’ll talk a little bit about this topic Jennifer already introduced me I’m economist alike numbers are like econometrics this sort of thing but I’ve been faculty teaching for 40 years so I think I’m titled to say something about what I do for so many years so I’ll give you an overview of how the Brazilian system of education works and how it’s related to inequality I’ll explain a little bit some new about new initiatives to expand higher education in to include underprivileged people in higher education so and now during that I will brag about my universe that a little bit and show how a wonderful we are and so and so on so so I’ll provide some background information first of all we should realize that we’re talking a big country big in in size I mean I lost it no this is a map i found in internet comparing brazilian us as a matter of fact that the lengths surface of brazil is larger than the the lower 49 states 48 i don’t know but it is it’s more north so if you put together you have more us in west and east and then the north-south direction brazil’s largest why do I show this because well we are talking about a large country and lots of difference Geographic differences whether differences part of the countries in the northern hemisphere part in the tropical area and we have like ten percent of the land in the subtropical area with occasional these moles is now in the mountain so lots of difference difference in in the occupation to people that live there in the South who have more European related population in the North more in local indigenous population now it’s all mixed up but in Brazil is only fifty percent white the other fifty percent is what you call know why and we have all all colors in the population because since the beginning they start mixing up and and it’s it’s a mess when you have to do as I didn’t some of inequalities that is related to race because you never know we have a famous case of this huge he was huge playing soccer soccer and now his huge because he got so fat Ronaldo and he’s obviously black and they were discussing one discrimination situation he said well if i were black i would be sorry or something but he has all the the biological thanks anyway so this is sought to you to have an understanding we have our almost 200 million population very high inequality very very high inequality income inequality this is the map of the country this is some paul we stayed right on the capricorn line and this is the equator line and these our neighbors were wires and Tina chili etc you see that most of the income is concentrated here but here we still have twenty five percent of population this is the Amazon region we have around eight percent of population there and here is the Midwest our Brazilian

Savannah where in the last 40 years agriculture expanded too and it’s very productive nowadays and competitive etcetera and received lots of population this is some information the first first one is population density you can see that they are located in in the cost of the Northeast region and typically here in the wealthiest part of the country this is per capita GDP and it’s also concentrated here manufacturing and service production and this is education this is the years of schooling you can see this is some polish state you can see the difference so it is we are talking of different countries really it’s when you talk about Brazil and this is average number of years of completed schooling for people over 10 years old so this is 2000 lots of red red is bad green is good in 2010 you can see that we get greener more better here the northeast part improve it and also we still have some bad situation here but here we are talking about a big forest very hard to get there and the population it’s concentrated mostly in this part so East so we are observing noticeable improvements in education nowadays almost so kid our kids are in school with we still have a lot to improve in terms of quality but now we are putting at least we’re putting almost every kid in school and more data will show when you go to universities then you can see that’s very low only thirteen percent of population even our neighbors in the South Argentina they have two times as much share of population with university enrollment but this is tricky because you might know in Argentina like in some European countries anyone is entitled to enroll at university you can take you 55 years to get your degree but you are still enrolled they don’t pay and so they give I ask add we were in la plata with verner last April I asked the Dean how many students do you have and he said I don’t know because you can count the enrollment but you don’t know which ones have died or left the country or whatever because anyhow but they have more people enrolled anyway so if compared with the other countries were really really lagging behind does it pay to study in Brazil that’s a study done by Fernando land feel you he’s the son of Fernando landa burner you know the father and this somewhere pessoa is step estimating return to education so in blue is the what you gain just by studying going to two universities thirty-two percent and this is postgraduate courses and this is the accumulated so you get a night % more money if you have a college degree so it pays and this is the big jump if you compare with senior high school high school and primary education it pays a lot to study will see that when we combine this information with the other information about access to education you’ll see that this is what builds up what i call the engine of inequality and it has to do with the way the system works so up to the senior high school before college you can go to a public school and that it is well if we everybody go or goes I don’t know how to say that there will be no place but typically there is place for everyone in a public school however quality is very

low so you can also go to private high schools and most people do so the same at the university level you can go to a private school paying tuition or you can go to a public university which is tuition free no nothing paid so typically up to senior high school private schools are expensive even more expensive than private colleges they’ve had better quality they’re bad best teacher best facilities everything the public schools are tuition free but very poor quality and the distance is enormous and I I can show you this is the 2011 national exam for students in the last year of junior high school you see in language private high school got 260 and but private 300 math the same so there is a gap in quality in public versus private high schools however at the university level you can see that’s the other way around the public-private RX too expensive but lower quality they have young or low quality teachers by faculty poor labs no library typically they have chalk and blackboard courses law business things that are cheap to to supply no no big investment capital cost and of course it’s very that their placement records are very low the public system is tuition free better quality with full-time PhD they have research labs they are research universities of course placement is best and here are some information about the university system okay no its power know which one that one so now I’ll give some information about the university system sewing in brown you have the public system it can be federal national the national government has is the main provider of public universities but some states the state of some poll where I live state of paraná some four or five states also supplement rich states of course supplement that supply with state universities like you of i and then you have private in private you have been for-profit and nonprofit universities who I’m talking here about universe not colleges we have plaintiff colleges of like liberal arts colleges you know evening courses just so most of the relevant private universities are either a Catholic or the Presbyterian universities typically there are some exceptions in some areas some ahmed’s in business they are very good private business schools and here’s the number of graduates you can see that the number of graduates is much larger larger in and private universities I will provide more information on this soon and hear about quality that’s full-time faculty so you have more at the public universities very low in private universities typically is just a guy that knows how to do it and works and teach in the evening or as a part-time contract and here in doubt graph is the faculty with PhD you can tell the difference and you can see that whatever good is in the note is the private is the nonprofit which is a serious and even research universities related to some religions congregation and and here is the applicants accepted rate in the public

71 and the private is 11 I mean in private basically if you want to study just go there and pay and you go typically there is an entrance exam that is mandatory in each university they have to do it by law but they just ask your name and if you answer it right you’re in right if you don’t they get suspicious but so it’s a huge divide between public and private universities I’ll go back a little bit no so how the rich people do what sort of solution they have obviously they go to senior high school in public in private expensive schools and after that they get a ticket to study in the best universities and then they get the best jobs so what’s left for the low income people of course they can only do the other way around so if you are a poor family you send your kid to the public school and then when is an adult or she only private university is available because competition is very tough to enter the best universities i will show you some some data for my university this is the selection process we have a written exam very complicated thing imagine how to even exam 250,000 people it’s a war operation you have logistics ism and secrecy of courses and you sure so every year around 600,000 people finish high school so they could try and attend but already three-fourth of of those they decide they cannot make it so they already give up so these brave guys take it and we have two phases and then won’t it take around 10,000 so it’s a high very selective filtering process so I used to say to even when we are hiring new faculty as we are now I tell them well the best asset we have is that we have the very good student body and that for those who like to teach this makes a whole difference having excellent students so giving the difference in quality and the difference in in others are the grades and I scale for one to 100 at my university 2008 this is the great obtained by the best student and and it covers all the high school subjects right math chemistry biology etc geography history it said so it varies from from field between fields but typically the best students are also the same level regardless of the school they are attending typically the medical school gets the very brightest but here is the the great obtained by the last one who was successful then you have it’s more heterogeneous and here is teaching teaching math chemistry and geology and geography environment so then you start having bad students well bad among the the ones that took the exam already there their selves there was a self-selection them but enrollment is growing in the system are you making a personal no okay enrollment is growing fast this is 2000 and recently even faster here but soon as I mentioned the first layer is lie this is very low and it’s growing fast in this is private you

know these guys is but an opportunity there and there are government programs that are helping them i’ll talk about them it’s interesting that the you know the laureate group it’s an international group i think is canadian or it they are buying all colleges private universities and colleges in brazil and making it a money machine and lowering costs firing faculty with PhD in hiring to without a PhD in their place for the same price and and also there is a concentration process of property concentration in schools and we will end up with four or five big groups of schools which schools all over like McDonald’s with branches all over the country but we are talking low quality you know money making sort of thing but there is some growth in the bright the federal system and some growth in the state system it is growing mostly in the private system but also the public system is growing not as much as it is needed and there is some online education but very few nobody believes it buddy I mean people are ashamed of saying that they are taking online courses it’s very cultural thing I see that it here is also not a very well accepted thing and typically the most this favorite areas are business and this is caused by one big program from my university for the state of são Paulo teachers so it is not open program it’s every each and every one of the San Paulo state teachers and I think they are 600,000 I don’t know how many they had to take this online upgrading course so at the graduate level things are more competitive or more as it should be more serious let’s say and there is an evaluation system produced by the ministry of education but it’s a peer review so the evaluation is given by Pierce they get they select a committee let’s say in education they get 12 faculty well respected senior faculty best universities and they get together there is a part that’s just objective counting pump points of production may how many papers are many books so many students how many and then there is an assessment of quality at the end and they give a grade 12 7 and 1 into you don’t even talk about it tree is the minimum standard and five is if you are only have a master program and we have lots of masters in Brazil with system important then you get the maximum five and the five is what you get from the objective accounting of your points then six and seven are giving on a more qualitative basis and the seven is what the committee understands you are the level of the International average on that field ok this is the distribution so we have here this is great for we have two thirds of our programs that are four or less and one-third six up five to seven and only three seventh three percent right three point three and ten percent six and seven ten percent that are competitive with international problems that’s what the committee’s say and of course the committee in law has one

Center the committee education has an understand the economics committee has a different standard so you never know you can not really compare this but so my university in this it’s a big universe 8,000 students you have some information there we have 234 majors and 4270 subjects we provide 220 PhD programs and we have about 5,000 and 400 faculty 97% PhD and ate two percent full time we still have some part-time faculty in some professional areas law for example nobody wants to be a full professor in law they make money they have the deceiver of University they make money consulting and some determine in some professional fields like architecture economics business and we have evening courses by law we are required to teach evening courses undergraduate level oops and of those great seven programs University of some progress twenty percent of of them and just want to point out that the 2011 really shanghai Academic Ranking we’re anchored 244 best in that includes Spain Portugal and Mexico and of course first in Brazil talking about concentration you saw the maps the only five Brazilian universities that are in the in this ranking are either some pole or the miniaturize or real or Rogan do so they are all in the rich part of the country which tells you about concentration and we account for twenty five percent of all science producing in Brazil so it is ok just I made my advertisement as I was required to by my boss now I’ll talk about the some programs about increasing access to university so we all know and it is well recognized in the country that this engine of inequality is there and it’s causing it’s probably behind the fact that Brazil has one of the highest inequality indexes in the world in terms of income so there are some recent programs that’s student credit student loans program it’s it’s it’s there we have a problem of scholarships for students who go to private universities we have a quotas program social inclusion is I will talk about we have a program for students with special needs and there is a huge expansion program of doing federal university system they have established many new universities in the country in different places it’s been an explosion of new universities and people are discussed this using arguing about quality but this is something this is the number of federal universities you can see that from two thousand two or three on it’s going very fast by the way federal universities are among the best as i showed before it’s the public is in the good side right there is a discussion about the quality of these new ones because they are hiring whatever they can and of course you cannot generate new candidates in a very short period of time so you have to select from whatever is available there is very good there are very good candidates but you were hiring like five thousand new faculty and you only have 1000 quality factory you are expanding it whatever you can get I have a student doing PhD with me she has a master degree she cut hired by this Virginia federal university of virginia with a master degree on it’s not good but it’s better than not having

it by the way she is you finish page this soon so when was i hired 1972 i had i didn’t have any even master degree i was in the end of my first year and it was expanding to and so time will probably heal any problems we have by this vest grow and this is federal government expenditure of with universities it’s also going fast and it’s a new thing it’s there for Romani in the air they are sending more than that another thing that I didn’t mention they have this a program called science Without Borders they are sailing sending 100,000 students undergraduate students in stem areas to study abroad we have plenty of here in engineering in de nguoi with full scholarship for a year or two years a federal government is really pouring money on on this so this is student loans it’s been there forever now they have improved a little bit you can get long as you do here it’s not you you have to pay back later I’m not is not interesting just so the numbers this is this observer than 2 2008 and this is this forecast I’m not sure this happened because the other programs i’m going to talk about compete with this so there is at least 600,000 students in student loans is highly subsidized it as here and but you have to pay back there is a problem of not paying back and so students get in trouble later on because they cannot buy a house because they haven’t paid their student loan the same story here i hear this is this a very innovative and both project presented by the Labor Party government that is more untie capitalistic untie I mean more left winger and they came with this idea they give a voucher for you if you are a poor guy you can go to any private college and they’ll pay college for you so there is a bit there was a big discussion because what you are doing well those this is those are the opponents talking what you’re doing is you’re giving money to the bad guys the guys that from for-profit bad quality colleges but government argued back that you are giving opportunity to people that wanted to study but didn’t have the money to to go it was a very controversial process but it’s is there it’s working there are rules but this is a way government sought to do to boost the supply of opportunities to poor people they are expanding there’s their own supply in federal universities but they are using the idle capacity in the private university system with different quality even even the state universities like mine expanded we expended ten percent the number of places and this is the number of scholarships were talking two hundred and fifty thousand two thousand nine is probably around 400,000 hour days it’s growing and there is a very another controversial one as it is here is about what you call is not equal opportunity huh affirmative action sort of program so this October

the new law was sanctioned by the president so now it’s the law fifty percent of new students in federal universities they cannot rule for state universities will come from students who took high school in private eye in public institutions the bad ones as I mentioned before so if you had to take I screwing up not so good institution you get some chance to get University on a competitive basis twenty-five percent of those will come from poor people so you had to be poor and go to a public high school and twenty five percent to blacks or Pardo’s what’s 12 mix it and indigenous and this is the location where is across states depending on the proportion of the population they have data census data and they they have it they are starting next year with twelve percent in 2016 to be fifty percent that’s and there is a big discussion on this as it is here my university did something different we have that as I described before we have this very competitive entrance exam so what we decide to do some ten years ago is to give a three percent bonus ain’t no a number of points for students with the same coming from from public high schools and I remember the first numbers we get around 10,000 new students every year the first two years we got 800 students under that program that mean we replace it 800 of the the ones that would have pass it without it there is a big discussion and I’ll come to it later on and there is a research done on quality students and they they had 36,000 students research it to get who gets the benefit so at that time that was before this law there was a different ruling Oh each university decided to do it on their own now they they are forced by law to do it the filter ones so 70 was public schools 25 ethnic groups and then low-income and and so so this student loans I I’ll read mission and there there are some some studies on performance in my university those three percent of points got 800 students that would not will never be there without the bonus so we followed their performance it turns out that they are better they around the average performance some are very in the top I mean they they replicate the student body they cannot pass the exam because they have lower preparation but once they are given the same classes the same books the same libraries etc they perform as well as now come back to this so this was an experiment done with the first year last year students in the same course the same school and it’s a it’s a comparison of grades in the first year this is scholarships those I mean let me say it right this is in private schools those who got this voucher to study so those are the ones with scholarships those are the ones without scholarships and this is the difference whenever positive the ones with scholarships did

better so in the first year the ones who got scholarships perform it better probably because they are more eager to study their world I mean you guys have to explain that again you are they’re the experts here but when you go to the last year this is the difference and the difference are minor and it can go either way and basically you cannot tell there is a big difference once they mix up with the other guys they sort of perform as well as oh but anyhow they don’t perform they don’t have a poor performer poorer performance you cannot say that they are about there in the back so we are not losing much in terms of quality by using this that’s that’s the idea because in my universe for example there was a huge discussion in because we are up knows that because because we are the best in the country and so and so you know so we didn’t want to do it so our role is to train the elite and you know the sort of talking that you can get in faculty meetings and so finally it passes we vote in University Senate they’d pass it but the and everyone to say okay we know we are doing something as a social program we are not this is not education we are losing in the education side by except in this paper now everyone is convinced otherwise because we have research on that gender & and why is how can we explain this and this that and I will end here imagine this is the distribution of personal skills and this is for the rich people and this for poor people and I guess you cannot say there is a the distributions are different because one is Richard the other suppose this is called cognitive this is you know I’m not an expert but this is my supposition so you have very few people with very high personal skills and the majority of people have lower skills the same here so they are comparable but the poor guys they start from below because they didn’t go too good universe they didn’t have good food they didn’t have good books at chatter etcetera etcetera so there is a gap that’s not related to personal attributes the related to social attributes so you are giving you are putting these guys replacing these guys you are putting poor people in this back and taking these guys are replacing this and that we are taking just the same amount of of people so is there a gang or a lost well provided that you are taking the very best in this pack in putting there you are replacing students with lower performance so you’re not losing in terms of academic performance up to a point which which one I don’t know it’s a matter of empirical matter but typically this is what we will observe in our universe with our minor change we are talking about five seven percent of the student body that we are substituting so it might not be a better thing and then is there is the discussion this is the last thing it’s very hard to change this the students seem especially parents in Brazil believe that if you pass the entrance exam you got a right and you’re right should be respected and you have a right to get free education good education because you’re good and government should provide you that so it’s the citizen right well maybe we should reuse the lottery and not so it’s

just the right if it is democratic should be random right but if you use it as a mechanism to reduce inequality then this is part of what is being done in Brazil right now you are using education to reduce poverty then you need some sort of different ways of selecting it and then who should pay for it varies in different situations but if in my state and this is a good thing of working for my university because I read here and see on TV that your fire goes to Peoria to discuss budget every year with legislators we don’t have to it’s in the state’s constitution that we have a cut fix it cut of total revenue of the state they cannot touch it so we only pray that the economy goes well so that we get more money and then we do whatever we want with the money under the law but why is that the my state society puts this money aside to to educate this people of course is not as a citizen right point of view it’s an investment in the future of the state so we they are putting money to get a return when this students are graduate they they get all day they have innovations they are good businessman they are improve the efficiency and productivity of the country so there is a payback that’s why we are investing this money if that’s the case it should be selective but based on the potential future contribution to that goal and that for sure is not obtained by grades in the entrance exam the grades only show wouldwould which are the best students to take tests I once was a Dean I had i used to have lunch with the 40 best students in the entrance exam in my collision for 10 in each department and i can tell you half of them will not succeed in life because they are just giving the chance they can they get good grades they cannot talk they cannot interact they don’t have the other skills needed to to excel and and provide whatever so said that society nee needs back from them so this is a different world so interest exam doesn’t do the job we need to think about other things who are the ones who will benefit the most and then we are not talking about the right so it’s like a a a drafting system that you you had 40 44 army you pick the ones with the largest potential contribution to the development of the country so it’s it’s a duty is not a right so this is the I’ll finish here this is the situation we have in Brazil we have this high inequality we have the educational system pumping up more inequality every year there are changes now changes are very disputable but the funny thing is that the the stakeholders the one the the ones that oppose the most for any introducing tuition so that rich people could pay for public education and then subsidize poor people those are the left-wingers the ones that should think about it and imagine that their constituency would be better off in that way but this isn’t an oi starter if they start talking about imposing tuition there will be a full strike and invasions and so and so so the left wing is very keen of letting things democratic in doing that there are

entitling the upper middle income class to get their places and reproduce inequality there are changes changes are in the right direction too small given the size of the problem but I think we are more optimistic these days then we were like 20 years ago thank you I’m sorry I spoke too long too much I’d like to release you decided one who grabbed the tremendous expansion of the private sector and private university which i think is a monstrosity I’ve seen it’s a business and often it’s the people who didn’t succeed to the federal university to web jobs and once they have jobs in order to better than himself need a certificate so they enroll and pay and most of them on night schools students have hired when they go they work all day the professors are tired they work in other places and basically the owners of the private universities research they care about and that seems to be is treatable well part of the explosion you saw in enrollment is related to the program that’s government paying it for it that’s government gain giving voucher for poor students to access that places and part is increasing in supply there are those private groups that are expanding like crazy especially in big cities where location is important if if you are more than 30 minutes away from school you cannot make it in the end of the day so they are sort of like CVS in walgreens one in each corner they are getting you know more students doing that but it is a problem because well first of all I think it’s better if they do it then if they stay at home watching novelas it is I think they’re better off however we have to work on that with time and see if we can have improvements in that system as you well know in the past there was an assessment of the private schools students had to take a test at the end it was mandatory because private schools don’t pay tax that’s part of it since it’s education they don’t pay tax but they are making money so government established that okay if you want to keep that status tax status you have to send your students to to the exam so they said okay let’s do it and then government start compiling the data and publicizing the rank and then they got upset that was unconstitutional they got good lawyers and so you remember camargue in the he was the person we know he was the executive CEO of the this institution of the Association of schools and they loved it too now it’s not in place anymore so we should do something to tell students about whatever they are getting and in the short run the long run we should work to improve the quality of students all over starting with the basic education when we do that in a three-decade four-decade period of time maybe those guys will not make money anymore because other students dubois elsewhere but nowadays there is supply there is demand they’re making money and students are sort of happy and governments pay for part of it but again in the shorter run I think it’s better than the alternative and we are talking about big numbers

again if we come back to my first map it’s a big country 200 million people when they started the the first national exam which was also disputed they had to send the paper test to each and every school in the country with secrecy and of course it’s a nightmare in the Amazon sometimes you have to to write three days in a boat to get to the school and the middle of and there were problems of course because you know temptation is there right but nowadays it seems they’re doing this exam is their attic now it’s there too forever they are ranking the you can get to the internet and get the rates of any school in the country the at the senior high school soon we’ll have that for colleges and that is the beginning but it’s a long way we have a similar problem here with the proprietary vocational school sector private the same buddy an access to certain zones but but the question was about accreditation yeah there is it’s at the state level there is a State Council of education and even even the University of San Paulo each department every three years have as to show the some records there are some forms etc n they visit the most problematic ones and sometimes they they take it off but the ones more the strongest one doing that or as if you go to law school think about quality law school you can find everywhere then there is a bar there is a bar exam and typically only ten percent of four graduates pass the bar exam that tells you something about equality in medicine the the Mets in the doctors themselves they’re shutting down some schools because they don’t pass the minimum standard but typically is very I don’t recall any school being shot by being low quality they get now they make sure they have the minimum to be to get renovation of the vegetation every three years and they survive not not at the school level and they’re very careful for instance they could they just public fries with the last last year’s exam result they’re doing it again now they could have ranked at the schools they have all the data but they made sure lawyers one get money out of this so you can check your record as a student you can check the record of your school but that’s it for your region or state your city so you can you are able to know what’s your position in the position of your school but it’s not there is no ranking when the war the worlds are ranking then schools started investing more hire people with PhDs I am pay more and even hire people to give their names PhD even if they didn’t teach there were some bad case likely but once it stop it being publicized they just fire the pH DS and that we had lots of colleagues in my university who took an early retirement to get money in private universities and now they are employed because I mean they are retired

they get you money but but it is it’s a complex system