Wimmin's Comix

so I think we’re gonna get started hello everyone okay so i’m margaret Galvan i’m your moderator today and as you can see we have for the participants of women’s comics here i’m going to very briefly give us an introduction in scituate what we’re here to here so as you may know women’s comics is a feminist comics anthology that was formed out of the underground comic scene in San Francisco and it ran for 17 issues from 1972 until nineteen ninety-two while the underground comics market is said to have collapsed in the mid-1970s women’s comics picked up steam and published twice as many issues after this point changing publishers twice in this process from last gasps for the first ten issues to renegade press four issues 11 through 13 to rip off press for the last issues 14 through 17 it has now been republished by Fantagraphics comics which I’m very excited about it’s in a lovely to volume box set after many years of remaining largely inaccessible so when I first read women’s comics it was in archival spaces across the United States so all told this is a little bit of my own research roughly a hundred different women contributed comics over the two decades the development of the series evidence is the changing landscape of feminism and other social justice movements as new generations of women took to the pages in the early in late 1980s so this is a network visualization I did of how the different women are connected to each other so I’m going to now introduce our four panelists who contributed at different points throughout the series each of them will speak for roughly five minutes before they consider a few questions for the group at the end we’ll reserve some time for Q&A from the audience so keep your questions until that time I should make a t-shirt this is great yeah so first we have DN Newman who’s the creator of DD glitz and editor of the Twisted Sisters anthologies of women’s cartoonists one of the earliest contributors to women’s comics DN Newman create the first issue of Twisted Sister comics with alien Kaminsky crammed in 1976 Newman has been nominated for Harvey and eisner awards and was given the ink pen award in 1994 next we’ll hear from a Phoebe Glockner who’s a graphic novelist her book The Diary of a teenage girl from 2002 was praised as one of the most brutally honest shocking tender beautiful portrayal of growing up female in America cartoonist R crumb called her story Minnie’s third love published in a child’s life and other stories one of the comic book masterpieces of all time her books have been published in multiple languages and her artwork has been exhibited in galleries and museums across the United States and Europe a film adaptation of The Diary of a teenage girl was released this August by director Muriel Heller glockner has long experimented with the form of the novel diary is a hybrid of prose and graphic novel and her current projects including a novel in progress about a family in Ciudad Juarez Mexico incorporate various media audio motion and static with text she was the recipient of a guggenheim fellowship for continuing work on her latest work then we have Leslie sternberg who’s sitting right next to me so far as anyone knows Leslie sternberg at one point in the mid-1990s was the first woman artist ever to receive a call back from Mad Magazine to do a second car tuning gig for that magazine I’m in addition to her work format Leslie’s comics and or writing have appeared in twisted sisters vogue screw Wonder Woman tits and clits dory stories real girl real stuff a comics journal weirdo Viper juxtapose and of course many more publications in the past couple of decades she has also co-created moderated comics conference on a bulletin board beat cancer and run off to the east bay to create experimental art space near the ashby bart called bash v art all while enjoying some measure of concentration on life extension first 30 years now she’s also been happily married to one the smartest man in the world he will see sig next to her the inventor of ideal toy sequel to the Rubik’s Cube mathematician Adam Alexander they live in the East Village in New York City where Leslie is at present feeling the burn and then last but not least we have Jennifer camper whose books include rude girls and dangerous women and sub girls and she’s edited to juicy month mother comics anthologies her work appears in numerous publications and has been exhibited

internationally she added the queer pinup playing cards and is a founding director of the queers and comics conference okay so now we get rolling so we will start with dan Newman Diane Newman I’m just excited yes she’s so we were supposed to um can you hear me okay okay we were supposed to show you some stuff we did before women’s comics and um really most of my early work was women’s comics but this was something called an eight pager that a lot of people just did for fun which is actually a mini comic which is a grand tradition that you can see today at the mocha fest and I when I was a teenager or a preteen i moved to canarsie in brooklyn and it was a very much of a formidable experience for me i had come from Long Island where I was just a kid and then I had to learn to be a teenager overnight in Brooklyn and canarsie was definitely a love-hate relationship and definitely also a lot of material so this was canarsie creeps for Christ’s sake see more if I told you once I told you a thousand times you can’t wear white shoes to a bar mitzvah that says it all this was women’s comics number four I actually was in uh women’s comics two and three but really very early formative work that I didn’t want anybody to see and this was the first comic where DD glitz kind of just came fully formed out of my brain or out of my closet or wherever she lurked and I was actually I’m still I like this story which is amazing to me because it’s 1974 and a DD robs a bank she finds herself pregnant from a butcher in Red Hook and um finds out he’s married and he was just leading her on and so she decides to rob a bank and run away to Rio and she gets away with it so that was I think this was the work issue we had titles for most of these comes we actually doesn’t say in the anthology but some of them were like the sexually perverted issue and different things like that this was the work issue and I had sort of did a raymond chen lenoir parody of DD as a private eye this is um there was a very long break as you can see between the last issue in this one 1987 and I can speak to the feminist issue here um we had formed a collective of women’s comics and um I think probably it wound up having the same fate as many women’s collectives over time but this really really evolved into a kind of clicks and us and them and them was Trina and us was a lean in me so um in 1976 we left women’s comics and did Twisted Sisters comics which was just the two of us doing whatever we wanted and so this issue was edited by Doris Ada and Christine critter and they waved what they assumed was Trina’s wrath to ask me to be on the front cover and I was very happy to do it oh this this slide is rubber where was a story I guess for the sexually perverted issue or whatever it was called edited by Joyce farmer and it’s actually based on sometime in the 80s all women’s theater group asked me to join them in writing a play about BTW called i’d rather be doing something else the DD glitz story and it was a full musical comedy and we I designed I had no idea what I was doing we designed all the backdrops and we had the munchies plywood panels that rotated so that you could have two on one um frame and i roped in all the cartoonists i know to help me paint all the backdrops and it was kind of like

inventing the wheel but I had a wonderful time and this was one of the scenes in that in the play where DD hosts a rubber where party at the time that was kind of a novelty I don’t think I think it’s probably pass a by now but and we had a really really talented musician who wrote the songs and lyrics her name was Liza kitchell and so this is part of the song and I definitely won’t sing it this was the 3d issue I can’t remember who’s the editor and this is just I it wasn’t in color but I later on did some a watercolor and I liked it and you know it’s the the torture of being in the dressing room and you know in my opinion you know feminism is really not the issue it’s like you’re a cartoonist and you work from your experience I to be a woman so a lot of it is about women and what happened to women and I was on a panel at SVA I don’t know several years ago and I was talking and I asked the audience were a lot of women a lot of new women cartoonists and I said how many of you are feminist nobody raised their hand and I said well how many of you think that women should get the same pay as men you know everybody so the definition is kind of slippery I think a lot of young women don’t realize how hard it was when I first looked at want ads they had ads for girl fridays no anyway this is stretch dammit stretch can I help you in there madam not unless you do liposuction that’s just the splash panel this might have been the relationship issue I’m sure that’s auntie um 16 this is 16 so I don’t know what what it was um meet Marvin mensch I have left fun with that logo with that um type making it all out of ties anyway this is actually based on a real person whose name was Irving mensch but I wasn’t allowed to use his name Chrissy he was someone who got real into studio 54 and all that stuff he was a classic kind of oh I know thought a lot of himself like I said here he thought he looked like Richard Gere but it was more like Richard Benjamin I don’t know if any of those I mean if you know who they are but Richard Benjamin was kind of a Jewish dentist type and Richard Gere was a gigolo so you know anyway says so you had silk shirt wiry hair armani blazer three buttons undone to reveal chest hair tightly pressed jeans Gucci loafers Ralph Lauren Sox cute tush manicure then your usual table by the mirror mr. Minch he likes to see and be seen so oh I don’t know if I can read this out i’m going to try i might have to stand up because this was really fun this is getting into the kind of young less type thing where you’re doing a parody of romance comics so it’s I married a hypochondriac and this DD glitz and Malcolm Trent which was sort of mal content is my blood pressure rising oh my darling when we kiss my heart pulsates to a bossa nova theme I think they met at a nail salon for poodles the guy or dogs and he had a schnauzer so let’s see fortunately like honeymooners everywhere we spent most of our time indoors Oh deeding my heart is beating so fast do you know CPR don’t worry now one little kiss won’t kill you unfortunately I was wrong gasps ed I can’t breathe I guess I can’t Matt what’s wrong now I can’t move oh my god I was stuck now now so once rigor mortis said ended i was able to free myself for a house feito final embrace some Aloha my darling all right Ian Malcolm Trent

1951 1991 I told you I was sick this is um a collection an anthology that fantagraphics put out in I think 2013 and unfortunately I don’t think it’s for sale at their table but you can get an Amazon if you’re interested and the back cover was um it’s based on Palmer 3ds well known cartoonist had helped me do you the DD play by making a giant velvet painting of DD that was hanging on her wall the the backdrops were not just paint they were like collage you know they had some things paste it on and a giant other furniture that we built anyway that’s my palm of weenies the back cover and pretty much everything I’ve done is in there so i recommend it and this is my latest thing and we’re supposed to show you things we’ve done after women’s comics and i’ve been a sculptor all along pretty much when i was in high school my major was sculpture so always I’ve kept my comics stuff and my sculpture stuff separate the comics you know it had an identity had named there was certain expectations the sculpture was totally for myself and I never showed it I just did it and I loved it you know someone would stand in front of me to take off their clothes I was thrilled and that’s what I’ve been doing for a long time but suddenly they they collided and I started doing these kind of high bar reliefs of my comic characters and I I got obsessed with it and so far I’ve done DD and Loretta but I haven’t I haven’t done a whole lot more but my plan is to sort of do some form of three-dimensional comics with them and I’ve created balloons that can hang on the wall these can hang on the wall and you can change the balloons and move them around with the different characters and actually tells story that’s the idea anyway are those clay yeah well I’m experimenting with different things trying to get the right this is air dry clay and acrylic pain and nail polish and what kind of show actually took the pics like that I think that turns us to PB Glockner um okay I didn’t realize we’re supposed to talk about her work um I was struggling deep wine away ok this is the oak is what we’re supposed to show things before it was the sisters during and after right ok fine yeah women’s problems Oh women’s comics not twisted sisters yeah okay hi um this is a comic I did when I was still a kid there’s like 1975 I think it was my first comic um so I’ve been doing them for a long time and that was never published until I included it in a book later on the diary of a teenage girl and I’m not sure what it means it’s just about walking around San Francisco which is why I got um so that okay and it’s funny I think about my work and twisted sisters it was I’m not proud of all of it a lot of it I’m keep saying okay okay okay I’ve been talking a lot today so um bear with me women’s coming um a lot of the worker did for women’s comics it was kind of a place where i was able to kind of develop whatever talent i may have had because what it gave me was a deadline um I finished stories that I probably never would have finished otherwise and I developed um my capacity to create more but a lot of the stories in there I look at it and I just like you know I have to look away um so but I can be kind of forgiving I guess um this was something I did much later than 1975 it’s in 1985 and I don’t remember what it was for it

doesn’t matter um but this is a story about a friend of mine I guess it was a work issue because this is a friend of mine who wanted to be a prostitute since she was in elementary school and I never quite believed her but she ended up figuring out how to become a prostitute and and did it and I’ve gotta say that’s great um follow your dreams um okay next uh this is a page not the first page um a story I think there’s always been I just realized this there’s always been either dolls or small characters you know in my work at one time or another and that persists through today but I never really made that connection until I started looking back at my old work um and this is about a little girl kind of fairy tale ish and she goes through the woods meeting all these little men and most of them are naked and/or at one point at least and they tell her who they’re gonna be in her life or who they will become and she rejects this all and runs back to her mother um I’m not sure what else I can say oh okay um that’s 1990 alright so I was always interested most of my stories are a kind of concerned with emotion or social interaction but so I always kind of lived in my head and neck came out of my work but since i was a kid i was fascinated by images and medical journals which i saw very easily because my grandmother was a doctor and she had millions of them so i look at surgical journals and things like that when i was a kid and um I never wanted to be a doctor I have no interest in taking that responsibility to care for people i just wanted to know what it looked like what someone’s liver looked like or how worked and so I went to college and then I went to graduate school for biomedical communications and saw a lot of surgery and participated in autopsies and things like that and I think you know it wasn’t even so much my goal to have some sort of craft that would be considered a profession and I could make money although I knew that might be a possibility um I really just wanted the experience of knowing what was inside and knowing it well enough to be able to be aware of it and so that was anyway but when I came out of school I just was kind of obsessed with uh exploring that I guess in my work besides my professional freelance work and this is the sad tale of the visible woman and her invisible man yeah and that’s another page from that oh and that’s just a picture uh that I included there because I realized you know if you don’t look at your work all the time you don’t even realize repetition of themes and I guess two pages back there is a picture of a little girl up there punching the guy in the stomach and then you know there’s the fist doing something else um I don’t know if that’s significant but then I started to see it repeated in more of my work and so that’s why I put it there um yeah yeah oh okay so currently I said something about dolls I’m working on this project um and I’m drawing with objects and making these dolls and creating these environments my studio now is is a desert it’s barren except I mean there are little desert plants and sometimes the cat’s poop in the sand but uh no my studio literally is a reconstruction of a neighborhood called an opera in northwest Juarez Mexico and um so there’s little houses all over the place and in my basement or in my garage are larger versions of those houses or like dioramas and I photograph figures in situ and um if you ever see this book you’ll know what I’m talking about but it might take a while okay oh also

included in this work at which I’ve been working on for ten years there’s certain sequences done as a photo novellas like and that’s actually the director of the Diary of a teenage girl who modeled for me for a part of the book that takes place in the 1940s okay and that’s from that same secrets of the book and that is also from the book unfinished work but it gives you an idea of the interiors I’ve been building and that’s not meant to be necessarily Mexico it’s more of a tangential chapter hey I think that’s it ok so can use ok so in recent times I’ve developed a pre internal case of a central tremor I look and sound a lot drunker than i actually am that said we will proceed that is an early early ship that was activism which relates women’s comics as anti-nuke activism later interested scissors I did a comic strip about three mile island I grew up in his backyard just 40 years ago they had a little bitty meltdown mr. didn’t even tell us about her 20 years but anyway enough about that I was already an anti-nuclear activist early in my life before I probably burns comic this trip was written by Ken Gayle who somewhat known in Panem and I was happy to do it with him for the waste paper and what’s next here okay this is an interesting bit never was posed in heavy metal but it was a part of we did get a kill fee so it from there officers I finished it over pens pencils with another friend writing and it recently showed up on the internet decades later and a couple of auction sites I still need to go to the police anyway what are you gonna do being a cartoonist nutty so now I’ll show you that i have always kind of overdone it in terms of detail and whiteout know that happy stuff but anyway I next yes this I must have been maybe 19 when I did this and it was never published anywhere and I showed it i was so pleased a friend of mine Mitch Berger God loveth introduced me to my become and that was new year’s eve of 1980 and he saw this in my portfolio of stuff that night and said I like this and I was like oh my god I’ve been blessed by a master I could be a heart image so there it is for your enjoyment but yeah it’s a is still there in my portfolio all these years later for sentimental reasons and it’s not the worst trip for a kid but yeah I would encourage you not to give up her special now in the age of the internet or publication and simpler than ever and your audience can come to you that much more easily what’s next okay this is some rank pornography of which have done no small amount someone a grilled hockey crap a dog is quite fine and this was for school magazine it was a the whiny punks in beach blanket porno scripted by a couple of friends of mine and I had great fun working on this this is all work prior to my doing anything for wounds comic I was encouraged after meeting her at the first san diego convention ever went to buy dory sida to do something for winners comics and I didn’t do anything more for them after he died I was thinking about that the end of the night that’s just the way things went but she thought it would be a good idea i would like to also put in a plug at this point for karen lesson who is a redoubtable talent in her own right and it’s been one of the good spirits of that collective over the years and given a lot of people a lot of good vibes and good artwork and I would shake the cheerleaders pop on for her here at this panel and say that you could do worse than to know her as a friend and the cartoonist and she’s a swell gal but anyway this is not the sort of thing that Trina would have liked probably probably now or then there were errors when people would get gripes and grab the chops busted of a content and often Trina might be among those doing the

grousing and this may have contributed in a doula is way to the origins of the the Twisted Sisters anthology I suppose that could be said and I think I’m not telling tales out of school I probably said this stuff to Trina personally so don’t worry about it but anyway the whiney punks I was working on when Adam and I were first preparing to go non platonic as i call it and he remembers that all those years ago so next up is more whiny punctures or three pages of that I guess I’m not going to read you the dialogue you’ll have to envision it into our minds and it’ll be even better know that so here we go this would my you can see why you shouldn’t use rubber cement my first women’s comic story I was a Broadway be girl for a day and I liked doing order bag ethical comics it’s a true that many of my best adventures either I didn’t get round the comic thing about or they’re so unspeakable that I better not but this is a true story about the one day when I worked at a horrible titty bar in Times Square called au mardi gras and ended up keeping my top on the whole night and got really drunk because he was about to spit the champagne back into the glass and I never got that right but anyway anyway it was an adventure a grand adventure and I was young and stupid slightly more than I am now and I almost everyone in this trip I open put my real friends and things is a still alive with the very few exceptions I am in fact one the phone with dori in that first year there and I used to chat with her she was last gasp book keep it she called herself the vampire book keeper and she drew worked nighttime hours and I’d call her up from the east village and we would Yammer into the way out and have a good old time but al this is how I ended up in women’s comics and it was wonderful to be so encouraged by friendly people and even Tina was quite nice after I’d met a few times she could remember who I was so she is legendary she’s a hippie goddess and I applaud her existence and that said well here’s Audrina oops but anyway uh what’s next is dressed up there’s more of Broadway be girl yes you know if you buy that hundred dollar collection or the pamphlet of working women and number nine I think you can read this at your leisure and have a good time with it and I tried to recreate real events as best I could while bringing a humorous element to it not that it wasn’t there to begin with anyway that fell there John skip who’s accompanying me at the end welcome you back from the gig went on to become quite a noted horror writer in his own right these days he’s directing little horror movies and seven I applaud him I was an early music skip inspector while I was not too busy doing other thing and very glad that they’ve continued to run with the ball down the field of horror writing so it’s laugh or scream or both in this life and what’s neck okay this was the second piece of the two that i did for two sisters i created the i I’ve done it to BBC businesses happy what it actually is repented intuited sisters it’s in both collections and strangely enough and the strength lipo thought of the first risen sisters collection came from the fact that it was all created for these ferocious underground pamphlets in the sort of mature era of underground comics and none of it was ever intended to be in the square bound trade paperback however this panel is about women’s comics so enough about that for the moment but anyway i penciled this indoor ec2 studio i was so pleased to be able to kibbutz with her in that way and we had a blast and i have never penciled the story so fast with a few exceptions I am NOT past and I’m not prolific but I can draw us order and this was when that magic moment happens where you can actually draw it and it looks like wanted it to look I always meant to do that with underground comics although it would get caught up with the I like to what were you on look to my artwork too so there is the dilemma that i encountered and accommodated over the years now there’s another page to this yes there it is and this again is based on a true story featuring a cameo at the end for peter max was an old friend of my husband you’re in a fan of his work and i’m glad he’s still rocking on and yes I don’t know what’s become of those iridescent

lenticular plastic strikes but they’re somewhere in the mess in our house and I haven’t worn them in a while but I was so happy to find them that day and if this story by the way was in the fashion issue women’s convict him we received a page rate that was less than fantagraphics reprint rate for the recent box set so go figure sometimes he just been and married but it was lovely be edited by Dori I had a ball of that and she was so happy so ok next this is a piece ok I had done a wonderful poster for may he rest in peace a legendary drag queen of the downtown scene named Dean Johnson and God love him an art director for both of this poster and said hey you want to do something for vote and I was like buh buh buh buh buh buh so I did and I had a real nice time during John McLaughlin as aliceinwonderland pat buchanan as a friendly elephant Bob Novak I guess he’s a oh the March Hare yes and George F will as the Dormouse and Henry Kissinger as the mad hatter I think it’s entering an election season I’d throw this in here too I have published in various places over the years although Vaux didn’t call me back though I am frequently mistaken for grace coddington I’ve even had stupid people vogue at me on the street I ran up to her once had told her this and told her I’d had two piece publishing vote one so she seemed quite believe that that was all I had to say ok what’s up next so this was a piece that actually after all that the women’s comic suffered happened and when the Twisted Sister stuff was a brew and I’ll mention them again ah there was a conflict around the rights to Deutsche work she’d been the girlfriend of the first publisher of zap comix dhan dhana you and she’d written a will curiously enough a few weeks before she died down all that long and and maybe it was month but she got Christian quitter and dan o’neill witness the thing so it was official it was legal and ron turner supported her and no one expected her to die except as he was really into full tilt bad live and she thought the nutrition consisted of a couple back to berkeley cigarette and a couple of six-packs of Henry when hired a land that was a great diet she would starve herself before convention to be sheltered than ever and I wish I’d known this back when not a major eat more food but as it is I did an opus that I recently sold for a pretty impressive sum of money thankfully and this was one page of it but it was published in verse gone led the anti-censorship not the piercing magazine and then a comics journal which I was happy about cuz it was more like the size it was intended to be at roughly 8 by 8 a half by 11 and then enjoy stories which took 10 years for Don to put together and she wasn’t the only girlfriend he had lost the ailment but we used to visit him every year and I’d say done you know those bumper stickers to take jesus is coming well I don’t want to feel like Jesus every year we come here and you look busy but he show us what his progress on the book had been it took 10 used and it was so worth it it was a wonderful tribute but if you ever one pick up toy stories it’s a lovely collection of everything she ever did and stop my boo sterling Neil Gaiman a blue by Papaji bright and and this is in there too along with a little essay I wrote about it but anyway Dory was integral to my involvement with underground comics she was just such a bright spirit I like knowing her it’s too bad i only got to know her for five years but it was very nice half a decade so what’s next here ok this is another I’ve only done 20 pie or opuses as you prefer and this one yeah everybody’s dying Dennis I go and come back so Matt uh it this guy’s a genius 10-year corn and he sent me this stack of swype this huge stack of swype and then when the book was rude to be reprinted you got a whole maze and lovely you think I’m worried about people knowing it’s them you think it go through there and make some changes so the original art is not like the square bound trade paperback version it’s more like this tough with a mind of changes throughout which is totally trivial but now you know and he was very perspicacious and the genius and I’m sorry he’s not still round in the world cuz what a character this is a

story that has an r-rated content but it’s a very heartfelt and quite fun to do I think it was number 17 of real stuff it was the cover story bad coach so I had a heck of a time without and used a lot as if it on back in the era before you could just fill it in with a nice graphics program and probably get the same effect I was I was going half blind from super done but and it was flying around because it gets kind of infernal one does its own thing and you know pics of sonic electricity and oh you can find all kinds of new circles of hell when you’re doing comic but anyway anyway let’s see what snake oh yes this this was for the back cover as it happened they did a science teacher paperbacks I’ll upside down when half and the other and I worked a bit with gauntlet the Santa censorship not the piercing magazine and this is a political incorrect issue from 1992 the first publication of the door he did the way story was in this and I have lots of fun with that I haven’t worked often in color but that was enjoyable and i used the acetate with the black reinhart and color on the different piece of paper and these are all things people used to do back in the error before was all computer ice but anyway let’s see what’s next ok here is it all show you from my substantial collection which I’ve never gets old any of so tell you collect a friends of Mad Magazine art I did old tent well jobs for them somewhere in there over about a half a decade in the late 20th century they took 40 years to call a woman to do a second job I don’t know what but I was that woman I don’t know what I think someone might have dropped my name anyhow if you look closely behind the clutter king’s head you can see about Dobbs and this with the first of two Bob I snuck into Mad Magazine and there is i like getting the dobbs head in there along with the fact that i kind of think he’s related as an icon to alpha d Newman but anyway I had a blast working for mad they put me through my paces who I hadn’t been knocking on their door but they said look we want you to do it this way and that when the other way do things like this I said okay okay obviously it left me in the state so I had the best time and they were a dream job lots of time to work for you know it’s interesting you Diane have said he was sculpted because I have other stuff i didn’t put in the powerpoint here but i have done stuff in the last couple of years that was wearable art and lost wax casting sculptor and that sort of thing I just thought oh well we’re here to talk comics they won’t throw that in there but anyway if people want to come hit me up to the book signing and get many guy Rancher some more that’s probably good too and I probably taken at least 15 Bendis so you better move on to Jennifer camper over here um I have to say it’s very humbling to be here i am a child who is sort of created by women’s comics i grew up reading all your work and you know I I grew up reading underground comics as a kid and it wasn’t till I saw women’s comics and gay comics that I thought okay I want to do this too so Maggie asked us to do something that to show something before women’s comics so this is a really early comic I did and my my style at the beginning was real gray and and kind of scratchy and then later when I started publishing it was all in underground comics and gained eight newspapers and so my style turned into the high contrast black and white that I do now just because it was always published in really crappy paper but at the beginning I was doing stuff like this next so this was in gay comics and this is my idea of a heterosexual romance it’s and it was funny because obviously I had no idea what I was talking about and I guess I drew this for I don’t know if it was the romance issue or something but for some reason I felt like I had to do a straight love story so that’s what I came up with and then this was something that was all true things I heard as a lesbian well the bottom one was I heard it in the room next door and you know I felt really comfortable sending in queer stuff I didn’t feel like that was an issue even though it

you know most of the writers were straight and a lot of the content was straight i didn’t really feel that it wasn’t a home for me in women’s comics and i was also reading Roberta Gregory and mary wings and and so there were lesbian comics out at that time so I didn’t it didn’t feel like a stretch it didn’t feel like it was not something that I could do next and so this is more the stuff I was doing later and I did a syndicate a syndicated comic that ran every two weeks in gay and feminist newspapers and and that was just a lot of fun because I could comment on what was going on in the world and it would be very topical and I again I could use this black and white style that would reproduce really well on cheap paper and then I could do naughty jokes which is always fun and these again these ran in the gay newspapers and it was it was a kind of nice model because there was a gay newspaper in every major city so people like myself and Alison Bechdel rob Caribbean and Andrea Natalie there was a handful of us who could do a regular comic and it would syndicate and it would could be printed between 10 and 50 different newspapers and then we would go nuts trying to get them to pay us which next and this is later I did this is an excerpt from a longer story called Ramadan which is I’m half lebanese and I was part of a community of gay Arab women that I knew and I was really fascinated I’m not Muslim but I was really fascinated and how they dealt with being queer and Muslim and so I interviewed a bunch of those people and I did this piece and I wrote it in the second person as you because I’m telling somebody else’s story and this is a page about how the parallels between between being Arab and queer how you know you find who all the famous Arabs are and all the famous queers are and what not so I start doing more stuff about my Air background after women’s comics and then the next one I do a lot of comics just about stuff it’s kind of a relief to draw about nonhumans and is it more I don’t know yeah oh and then this is a piece yeah sometimes I do color this is part of a four page thing on school girls and and what I don’t have here is I’m now I’m doing longer pieces and longer fiction so I’m doing stories that are from like 12 50 pages and a lot of it is sort of like Nordyke genre fiction with like a really twisted take on it I think that’s the last one so I want to ask one question for all of you and I’m going to open it up to the audience for audience questions so since this was just reprinted it has a preface if you get the box set by Trina Robbins and in the preface she says the first few issues weren’t even many of the woman who’s bid work to us had never drawn a comic before and it showed we were more interested in giving women a voice and how professionally they could pencil and ink so I want to think about how this idea might be a feminist idea even though diane has already served said well what what do we mean by feminism here and to serve juxtaposed this just in our minds very briefly this is me as an academic right sisterhood is powerful was one of the first feminist anthologies that came out in mainstream publishing and in the end introduction she said there’s also a blessedly uneven quality noticeable in the book which I for one delight in there was a certain kind of linear tight dry boring male super consistency that we were beginning to reject that’s why his collection combines all sorts of articles poems graphics and sundry papers so I just like to open it up to all of you to sync up through is women’s comics geminus how was it feminist I think maybe feminism’s is sort of where we could go by just want to sort of get more of a take on that since that’s sort of one of the focuses of this panel I see I think that was a very good and generous idea that Trina had in principle about including women in comics I don’t know can you hear me okay yeah so but it didn’t make good comics that was the problem you

know certainly initially they were incredibly uneven and at the same time I am grateful because I got the chance to learn in print and get better and become a cartoonist which I wasn’t to start but when I look back at that anthology I found I was surprised because I actually liked so much more of it than I remembered liking and I think that’s because the emotion and the kind of fighting for position or feeling funny if you got left out all this stuff what’s gone and I could just look at it and saying oh well a lot of this is really good and a lot of it is crap so my position I don’t know how that relates to feminism is that over the years I can look back and see the balance has changed and there was more good than crap you know I think it’s kind of interesting that that we judge it this way and I think part of it is because when women try and break into a field that is not a feme you know they’re there is a boys club they’re told they’re not good enough and that happened in comics it happens in a lot of different places and if you look at the early underground comics across the board there’s a lot of crap whether it’s men or women I mean everybody was learning their craft as they went along so the idea that the women somehow didn’t know how to make comics properly you know it’s such [ __ ] because the men didn’t either i mean we all were learning as we you know everybody starts out somewhere and move somewhere else if you keep doing something over and over you’re going to change and learn and whatever but i think that idea of not being proficient is something that is thrown at women in a different way than it is thrown at men and you know look at the crap that men put out I mean I don’t even want to go there yes I I wasn’t that bad still as a beginner I know as everyone starting out in common I was going to say I tried to arrange and this was her friend who was a professional and it’s very well-regarded I had a meeting arranged with a guy who will remain nameless although later we flew in the same plane to San Diego and the awkwardness was wonderful and he he let me cool my heels until I went away he ignored me in the offices of one of the big to as they used to call them he just ignored me when I showed up with this appointment and this was how he accommodated my present and you put up with a lot the first time I went to visit dt I remember Don heck and vinegar letter saying oh there any more at home like you you don’t want to do comics they only do it for the licensing it’s all about the licensing here why do you want into comics there’s so many of the things you can do and it between the mixed message as i was getting i thought oh hey i have a good story now and now i know that a comic about it but it stayed with me and wounded comments would encourage you to publish there is that i made a point of wanting to bring at least some professionals or some chops from my friends were two comics that i’d learned by watching other people and picking up tips i wanted to be as good looking artwork wise as the guy art might be you know as a work of a competent male artist that was one of my goals and I thought well [ __ ] that you know if anyone’s gonna give me a hard time I’ll be good enough so they can’t do it so that was always part of where i was at with it and yeah i would end up in cased in elastic because i worked too hard and injure myself but it was worth it you know so um OT I don’t know I guess I’ll just repeat some anecdotes you know I’ve I guess when I was young I really rejected the idea of calling myself a feminist or a Democrat or anything else because it seemed in my life to create more divisions rather than bring me closer to anyone and um so I didn’t call myself a feminist um because I guess I thought that what we’re really after is humanism are something that a similar you would

might use that word far but um anyway it always surprised me when I was ten years old abortion was made legal and I grew up watching the news and you’d see reports about women’s lib and pictures of women burning their bras you know at demonstrations and so by the time I was a young teenager I just assumed that all the work had been done and that I would grow up in a world where things were equal and I really believed that and I just assumed that that was understood by the world and it took a few experiences to realize that that wasn’t so that there was an assumption that was kind of invisible and you didn’t even realize it but that men really did not believe that women were equal to them there’s just an assumption that they are superior and it’s assumption they make which you might not make yourself um and yeah there was a lot of sexism um this is sort of related to comics I remember I did a big painting it was a cross section of a head giving a [ __ ] but for me it was it wasn’t meant to be so much provocative it was just something i wanted to visualize fine uh Leslie mentioned screw magazine um so anyway what’s his name David Erin Clark lobbied for in law I’ll gold seeing two other to stop painting and he was so pissed but I’ll angle do you download the cost of it oh it was bad for that so his life about that well anyway the thing is he he contacted me I had no idea who he was and then he said you know I’m a publisher of screw magazine and um okay and he said he wanted to buy this painting and he told me how much I didn’t I wasn’t like arguing with him about the price or anything he just offered more money than I’d ever gotten for anything unless son Dave wanted you to get ya okay so um anyway he invited me he said he wanted to buy the painting in person he wanted to give me the money in person he took me to a very nice restaurant in San Francisco and he was a big large man kind of sweating all the time and yeah and and we SAT we had dinner and a nice chat and then he looked at me he goes you know I don’t know whether you really like to give blow jobs or whether you really hate men and and I thought well what was I to say right and then wait when it became time to give me the money he you know there were people all around us at different tables having little romantic dinners but he very obviously took out this big wad of bills he was gonna give me three thousand dollars for this painting and he’d had thirty one hundred dollar bills and he very conspicuously but one down after the other and I was like okay well and then he looked at me and he said now you know what it feels like to be a hooker [ __ ] but but I didn’t really see the connection I mean he was seeing me for a painting after all God actually I was being right was he an [ __ ] that was his idea of activism probable oh right anyway so let’s just open it up to some QA on that happy note audience just one thing about that painting we had a big Twisted Sister show in Los Angeles at a gallery called la luce DeJesus and um that painting was put in the window so you can see it from the street anyway yeah yeah I remember going to la Eyeworks or something across the street and even this great view let me just mention that the opening reception for that art show including a beautiful from the seed across the street to the window view of that painting may be seen at archive.org as a video shot by this fellow right here called Adams eyes is the twisted sister publication show and exhibition reception and if you look it up this was done in conjunction with the new museum transfer station project so it’s very legitimate so okay it can be you oh yes at the moment did the painting I thought I word that the

painting tin from across the street through the window comes into focus some are sir alarm rings it’s the most beautiful thing it’s really the high point of the video right now and there’s a burn you see it coming into view so there you have it so any question yeah so any audience questions speaka I’ll go back first men cook board yeah sure chasing us or specific standard did in that conversation which I guess would mean like a lot of catching and looks like a little white art from my question for you would be coming exhausted because if you’re trying to do okay so I’m going to repeat the question for the video so the question is about working very hard being over exhausted in self-care so it’s also about style and deadlines okay i just i was sure well thanks for asking it is important self-care while working it’s very important and I think it to know yourself as you work and to have people whose opinions you trust someone you going to bounce things off of that’s another thing Adam facilities for me even before i head to toners but i’ll tell you their stuff you’ll learn over the years like to eat if you’re going to be up all night take a break and go eat something don’t be stupid you know i would often work through the night so the phone wouldn’t bring because there’s nothing wrong with that and then I begin to flag a little bit earlier and Howard Stern recon and I get a second wind god help me but anyway that was a good for us with me at magazine but yeah with a god that kind of final the super detailed stuff I’ve always liked people’s worked like I don’t know Bernie Wrightson used to drive me crazy when I was a kid 02 big swampthing fanatic and people whose work was intense whether it was a gram engl the read gran dolor you know Virgil Finley or these days I see book by guys like Jim Blanchard and there’s a new york post illustrated named Harry Pincus who is a fiend for Sifl but it’s good to know ways to take that and do it beautifully or to assimilate you know techniques that will make you go crazy putting every dot on the paper to learn to master Coquille board is a great thing to know exactly how to use press type or exhibit over soon this is a great thing to know how to put textures in there they give it that richness without driving your wrist around the bed so you can’t finish the rest of the dawn that’s always good and after deadlines people learn to use tough love with me but I was all terrible with them and if that was part of my bet wires and artists in the form of print work communications wizards I was a deadline terror so people would learn to work with it though and they take well you know I’m gonna give you that line and then they’d talk to me about it and eventually the work would be turned in and it would be worth the wait and no laughing you know that’s the way it goes when things are going well so anyone else can talk on this topic as well I don’t think you can protect yourself actually especially if you’re you you’re doing what you want to do you can sort of only do it one way I mean

not that you can’t come up with things like hook your board and stuff but it’s very very hard to meet a deadline it’s very hard to be on the other end do it when other people aren’t meeting their deadlines that you gave them which I think so i’ve experienced both of those things but in the end in at least in the underground or stuff like that it’s just worth the wait and i know that you should get up and you know she’d stand up and move every hour so i would I don’t know anybody who does that you know I just know people who hunched over there drawing tables that’s right um yeah I know I always think that I’ll have better habits but whenever I have an opportunity to work for like more than two days straight because I teach as well so whenever I have a chunk of time I get so excited and my tendency is just stay up till three or four in the morning just working and working and working and I really need like no distraction because I’m so distractible so I I just like it feels better at night you can’t see as much peripheral e so it’s quiet and um but then i’ll remember Jesus Christ you know I have to drive my kids to school in the morning so go to bed at four and i’ll i’ll have to be up by six thirty and that’s two and a half hours of sleep and then when i get back i think i was gonna pick a nap but then I’m all like in here and then I start working but it just keeps going and going and I don’t get sleep for a week and and I feel insane at the end of it although you know if i’m lucky i will have accomplished something but you know it might be dubious quality i mean because got better at any bait it’s very hard and also in terms of diet i I don’t know I um did you get that no uh I don’t have any kind of culinary intelligence at all I my body doesn’t crave greens so I don’t eat them um and I’ll go for the nails of a really bad sweet tooth so last week it was Easter and I bought all this Easter candy and I think I 83 1 pound bags of jelly beans within one day and a half which is bad enough but if that’s all you eat and that’s all i ate i just think i took am ashamed it’s but i but that’s what keeps me going I want more jelly beans that gives me exercise I have to get up to get more jelly beans yeah I think that the answer is yes we need to take care of ourselves and the answer is no none of us do properly and then the third answer is but that’s okay you know we do the best that we can and I didn’t I did have a friend who destroyed her arm with carpal tunnel and that scared the hell out of me and so because of her miss Ford I am better at resting my arm and knowing that to work through the pain so I guess part of it is that pay attention to the pain and that’s a message to maybe take a break okay we have time for one more quick questions of anyone really we we have two hands in the audience so maybe I can hear both of them and then we’ll combine them into one ok so in front person in the very back all you can actually see your character kind of self portraits and and three people mentioned that they arresting now going into sculptor and thinking kind of work they like going two dimensions into three dimensions and I’d like to ask what do you think this is before 2d ran out of it and she just have to explore something new you think this is a natural progression Adam to do work into 3d work or you got tired or 2d work you went into 3d work ok so they’re partners ok Oh of it eugenics like that’s the last question the back can you be very brief ok so 3d work and then creativity block it sort of moves off the last question 2 and so let’s make these served final remarks hubli well as wise as he dimensional stuff goes I had actually taken up to and Julie coaches as a kid and during the time when I

recently took it up again I was hopeful that a friend was going to extend his life which he did for about a half a decade it was pretty good time to quality wise but he was a legendary sculptor and painter in his own blood of all materials and axel is his name if you look up axel Dooley I wrote him up for dr. hold back in the mid 90 and it was trying to find a way pon mantra in the got me back into three dees off a few years back making Jovian sculptors because I would consult with them a little bit just to get him to fire those in after his all died done to any pain meds and he was coming back from that and I was like Axl how would you do this and it did kind of help a little bit i’m glad to say but he wasn’t entirely i think that i had full gung-ho momentum with on my own it was more like a revisitation of something I swore that a kid and on behalf to some extent of a friend and if you ever look up actual the jeweler’s were doing 40 cuz he really is a legend but as far as the other thing that created of what that relates because I think to relate if you can’t create friends to talk to the humans have exposure to the human experience let and inspire you even if you’re looking at stupidly and television ads and laughing out loud those and because something psycho different way than usual you know just to engage with the world even introduced ago watch the Sun come up to break into practice those kind of things to be able to know yourself and work with the world that’s what you’re here to do go ahead for me they’re not mutually exclusive at all and they it’s something merged and that just sort of happened something I’ve been keeping very very separate two very important creative outlet suddenly came together it doesn’t mean that I won’t draw comics and I’ll just do that I will do both um I don’t remember what else because of blood well getting off the couch that’s the hard thing once you’ve managed to get yourself into your studio or at your drawing table or sculpting Stan then you know you have momentum that takes over but getting there is really hard um Oh 3d I vote but I didn’t started doing those dolls but it was kind of a because the story i was working on it it was a real story about a girl who was murdered via Lee and I started going to Juarez Mexico like over a period of 10 years I was going three or four times a year and it correspondent with this incredible violence that peaked in 2010 and um I you know I at first I was drawing these murders and rapes and you know when you’re doing comics I mean I repeated this on four times before so I feel like it’s redundant but anyway building the dolls for me was the solution to continuing this work because it was very depressing you felt so much like the perpetrator when you were drawing violence as you have to in comics from many different points of view because you’re continuing a story and you know I could build these dolls and I could [ __ ] kill them I could break them I could do whatever I wanted to and then the next day I wash off the blood and they’re smiling and they’re alive again so it was and it worked and I wasn’t thinking of them so much as three-dimensional because that they were not the art the art would be eventually two-dimensional and printed and I always I mean Vaughn turn in one day he took me to last gasp I mean he met me he was the last gasp publisher had all these underground comics I went there to visit when I was very young and he pulled out a flat file and he says I’m gonna show you some work and he had like Victor Moscow’s go originals he had bill Griffith he had Robert Crumb he had all this art that i was just like dying it you know i was amazed it was a different size and a comic bugger was like wow I’ve never seen anything before well and he said this is what I like to do and he took his hand and he closed his eyes and he ran his hand over the pages and he’s like it’s three-dimensional you can feel it and then he let me like touch crime and all until I’m always kind of that got in my head and I always thought well you know nothing is what it seems and this is kind of three-dimensional so I don’t know yeah and create a block it’s it’s torture and I don’t know

exactly what it is one type of creative block is like a GI finish something I don’t know what to do next boo hoo and then um what the other thing is you know what you want to do and you don’t know how to get there and that’s a very active process of kind of fighting in your brain it’s like your brains filled with a million voices and nothing is working and then you start to hate yourself and feel despondent like you’ll never do anything again I mean but it’s this process I think that you just have to live through and it’s torture and it will happen again and again and then sometimes you’ll be so elated when you finish something and look at in it and you feel like the world’s hole and you’re whole again and you have hope so I think that’s just you know it goes with the job yeah yeah I don’t do 3d work but I do a lot of graphics stuff and I think as cartoonists we all do a lot of things because comics is writing it’s drawing its you know fashion design it’s backgrounds it’s it’s everything so most cartoonists I know also do other kinds of art and it makes complete sense and I just want to repeat what everyone said about creative block it’s I think being an artist is sort of being manic depressive you have periods where you’re really productive and it’s the best high in the world and I think because of that you also have to have the valleys and that is devastatingly scary because it feels like you’re never going to get back on that mountain again and after you’ve done it over and over and over I think you get better at riding out the dark periods knowing that that is kind of what you have to have to go to the light or the productive periods so maybe for me anyway I’ve learned that when i get in those unproductive periods it’s not creative black so much but it’s just there’s times when I’m less productive and you got to forgive yourself and give yourself whatever it needs to get through it because that other stuff is still there great i’d like to welcome you to thank our panelists